Author Topic: Ideal Protein Diet (Read 51970 times)

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Ideal Protein Diet
« on: July 09, 2013, 02:49:45 PM »
Anyone else tried this?

I'm not a dieter, but a very good friend came to visit and she had lost 50 pounds in about four months on the Ideal Protein Diet which was developed for high performance athletes and has since spread as a fad diet. She signed up and bought the food and has been really happy with the weight loss and her energy levels. It is not cheap - $350 to sign up and $90 a week not including the two meals you prepare yourself daily!

My husband wants to lose 20 pounds and was intrigued by my friend's success... so I researched it and decided that we could DIY it. The basic format is low carb low sugar protein shakes 2x a day, 2 high protein meals with vegetables, and one snack-type protein bar. In addition, you need to take a multi-vitamin, calcium, magnesium/phosphorous and omega 3 daily. No sugar, no aspartame, no alcohol, no dairy, no fruit, no pasta, rice, beans, potatoes or starchy vegetables for the first phase. Olive oil, sea salt, spices, herbs, soya sauce, and rice wine and red wine vinegars are ok.

I researched some of the recipes and discovered a weird world of diet foods out there. People crushing up expensive Ideal Protein diet crisps to make fake breading for chicken, spending a lot of time trying to make fries out of turnips and pasta from zucchini, and eating a lot of fake food dressings, substitute sauces, and sugar alternatives. In the end of reviewing information (a lot of it from http://3fatchicks.com/) I realized that food addiction is tough. Many of the posters were very overweight, obsessed with calorie and carb counts, and prone to "falling off the wagon". The diet had worked for a lot of them though.

Anyway, went to Costco and bought the protein powder and I made some big batches of high protein soup with vegetables. We are following the no sugar, no alcohol, no dairy, no fruit, no pasta, rice, beans, potatoes or starchy vegetables - that alone would be enough for weight loss. I think our food costs might actually go down a bit and it is kind of fun for us to try something new for a bit.

onehappypanda

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 238
  • Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 03:02:51 PM »
This is just another low-carb, high-protein, low-calorie diet wrapped in a fancy package with the price jacked up.

There are a million of them out there, and you can easily dupe them without resorting to anything as fancy as protein and supplements. Just cut grains, eat lots of protein and non-starchy vegetables, avoid sugary stuff. Watch your portions, don't eat a bunch when you aren't hungry, and you'll eat less overall. You could even check out the primal diet guidelines (marksdailyapple.com) for some ideas on how to get a higher-protein, higher-fat, low-sugar diet naturally, without all the hyped up processed junk (i.e. protein bars and powders, and the like).

Donovan

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 185
  • Location: Indiana
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 03:03:28 PM »
I don't know specifics about the nutrient levels suggested by this diet, but it basically sounds like the Daily Apple version of "Primal" with a higher emphasis on shakes (which most likely primarily exists in order for the Ideal Protein Diet people to make money off of their proprietary, high-markup shakes). You might want to check out http://marksdailyapple.com/ for recipe ideas and motivation.

I'm curious, what are the exercise recommendations of this diet? Generally, I don't trust anything that promises magically weight loss through diet alone. Increasing physical activity in addition to controlling food will always be more effective than mere food control alone, and any diet program that does not acknowledge and recommend this tends to be nothing more than a marketing ploy.
This is not us against them, its us for us.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 03:23:05 PM »
The exercise is minimal in phase 1 which lasts until you reach your ideal weight I believe. I'm not an expert because we have not signed up for this, just copycatting it. I believe it is low impact 20 mins twice a day and then it goes up in the next phase.

I think the appeal of this diet is that the average weight loss is 5 pounds a week or close to that. This seems fast to me. The plan makes a lot of claims about ketosis and forcing your body to burn fat rather than carbs while maintaining muscle mass because of the protein intake.

I do believe the diet is made to sell Ideal Protein expensive product and I don't believe the products are necessary - and that many of them have weird ingredients.

For my friend, the structure and lack of having to plan anything worked for her. It was easy and she did not get hungry. Everything was planned, quick and easy.

My friend is an older single woman with lots of disposable income. She runs daily but could not lose weight before - I guess because of diet. She had to have her gall bladder removed at one point and attributed it to poor eating habits. She feels pretty confident that this program can work for her long-term. External structure and accountability are key for her.

We aren't buying any Ideal Protein products or snack bars. We are doing the regular protein shakes (Muscle Milk is the one we bought first), although I do find them too sweet. I don't normally eat breakfast so I'm going to see if I feel more energetic having something. I've always followed the idea that you just eat when you are hungry and its worked pretty well, but then maybe it could be better.

I'm mostly along to support my spouse in trying it out. I think having a plan is helpful though when you have weight to lose and what you are doing is not working consistently. I expect he will lose weight rapidly just by cutting the carb/sugar/dairy/alcohol intake.

onehappypanda

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 238
  • Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, 03:52:17 PM »
The exercise is minimal in phase 1 which lasts until you reach your ideal weight I believe. I'm not an expert because we have not signed up for this, just copycatting it. I believe it is low impact 20 mins twice a day and then it goes up in the next phase.

I think the appeal of this diet is that the average weight loss is 5 pounds a week or close to that. This seems fast to me. The plan makes a lot of claims about ketosis and forcing your body to burn fat rather than carbs while maintaining muscle mass because of the protein intake.

I do believe the diet is made to sell Ideal Protein expensive product and I don't believe the products are necessary - and that many of them have weird ingredients.

For my friend, the structure and lack of having to plan anything worked for her. It was easy and she did not get hungry. Everything was planned, quick and easy.

My friend is an older single woman with lots of disposable income. She runs daily but could not lose weight before - I guess because of diet. She had to have her gall bladder removed at one point and attributed it to poor eating habits. She feels pretty confident that this program can work for her long-term. External structure and accountability are key for her.

We aren't buying any Ideal Protein products or snack bars. We are doing the regular protein shakes (Muscle Milk is the one we bought first), although I do find them too sweet. I don't normally eat breakfast so I'm going to see if I feel more energetic having something. I've always followed the idea that you just eat when you are hungry and its worked pretty well, but then maybe it could be better.

I'm mostly along to support my spouse in trying it out. I think having a plan is helpful though when you have weight to lose and what you are doing is not working consistently. I expect he will lose weight rapidly just by cutting the carb/sugar/dairy/alcohol intake.

Unless you are extremely obese, weight loss of 5 pounds a week is NOT a good thing. You can only lose so much fat at a time, and typical healthy weight loss is 1-2lbs/week. Maybe more initially or for really obese folks, but even then 5lbs/week is a lot. Most likely, those extra pounds lost are coming from loss of water due to a severely carb-restricted diet, and loss of muscle from not consuming enough real food. Water weight will eventually come back, and muscle loss is actually really unhealthy and could damage your metabolism. All the claims about muscle maintenance and ketosis are usually based on psuedo-science at best, and they're banking the fact that consumers don't know any better.

With weight loss, slow and steady is your best option. Fast weight loss generally leads to quickly gaining it all back, which is why Americans spend a ton of money on fad diets but are still generally obese. The thing is, in order to be healthy long-term, things like self-control and planning are necessary. Diets that bypass that are probably going to lead to temporary results at best.

Donovan

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 185
  • Location: Indiana
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 04:15:01 PM »
Agreed with everything that the happy panda just said.

I expect he will lose weight rapidly just by cutting the carb/sugar/dairy/alcohol intake.

This is most likely the most important thing you've said (well, the sugar and alcohol part. I personally love my whole milk at times ;] ) Cutting out excessive sugar, refined carbs, and alcohol definitely lends itself to consistent weight loss, partially because it's extremely hard to overeat without them.

I'm not sure how 'low impact' you are referring to in your post, but if you are largely new to exercise I would suggest checking out the Lifehacker fitness routines (http://lifehacker.com/5982110/fitness-20-full-body-workouts) You could also look for any simple, body weight based routine if you don't want to get into a gym. If you're going to be eating that much protein anyway, you may as well put it to use!
This is not us against them, its us for us.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 04:36:25 PM »
Most of the people on this plan who post online seem to fit the obese category.

I can say for sure that my friend is very happy with the results and feels good after four months on the plan and is exercising regularly and maintaining muscle. She looks great. That is fairly good evidence to me that this type of diet can have good results for some people.

I don't know what low impact exercise the plan requires exactly, my friend runs daily as she always has. I walk/hike a lot and am in pretty good shape. My husband wears a pedometer and is aiming for ten thousand steps a day. We do lots of house-related exercise. I agree with putting the extra protein to use though! I could stand to gain some upper body strength for sure - I will check out the site.

My spouse has gained weight recently and his eating habits haven't changed a lot so we are not sure why. He is concerned so we will try this for a bit and see how it goes.


Crash87

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 165
  • Age: 30
  • Location: St. Louis
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 04:42:19 PM »
My advice is to make small diet adjustments at a time. People that drastically and rapidly change their diet tend to fail. These are life changes unless you only want the weight loss temporarily. I think you're on the right track by reducing flour, sugar, and alcohol intake.
In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes.

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2013, 04:49:02 PM »
It sounds like another iteration within the PSMF family of diets. Protein-sparing modified fasts. The idea being that complete starvation yields the fastest weight loss, and adding some protein to spare your muscle mass is second to starvation.

It sucks, but it's damn effective. Lyle McDonald wrote the best book about it.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 05:17:28 PM »
It sounds like another iteration within the PSMF family of diets. Protein-sparing modified fasts. The idea being that complete starvation yields the fastest weight loss, and adding some protein to spare your muscle mass is second to starvation.

It sucks, but it's damn effective. Lyle McDonald wrote the best book about it.

I think this is exactly what happens. The interesting thing is after the first few days most people do not feel hungry on the plan. The plan does the gradual re-entry to normal maintenance eating after the ideal weight is reached. The phases are described here:http://diettalktoday.com/the-phases-of-the-ideal-protein-plan-diet/

I personally do not think it is a bad thing to fast, although I don't do it because I see no pressing reason for it. Our ancestors must have experienced regular food shortages and I can't imagine we are not built to handle this for a short period of time.

I think there is a lot we don't know about metabolic set points and what impacts them. I'm hoping a change in diet helps my spouse's metabolism a bit.

jba302

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2013, 05:47:15 PM »
It sounds like another iteration within the PSMF family of diets. Protein-sparing modified fasts. The idea being that complete starvation yields the fastest weight loss, and adding some protein to spare your muscle mass is second to starvation.

It sucks, but it's damn effective. Lyle McDonald wrote the best book about it.

I'm just going to look for your posts on shit like this instead of getting all the links together, save myself some time.

Just to add though (so I feel contributory) - If you are are doing a PSMF or keto diet, you need to lift hard and heavy. A hard cut on top of inactivity is going to turn you into a skinny doughy person, which is probably opposite of the goal.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2013, 08:34:35 PM »
It sounds like another iteration within the PSMF family of diets. Protein-sparing modified fasts. The idea being that complete starvation yields the fastest weight loss, and adding some protein to spare your muscle mass is second to starvation.

It sucks, but it's damn effective. Lyle McDonald wrote the best book about it.

I'm just going to look for your posts on shit like this instead of getting all the links together, save myself some time.

Just to add though (so I feel contributory) - If you are are doing a PSMF or keto diet, you need to lift hard and heavy. A hard cut on top of inactivity is going to turn you into a skinny doughy person, which is probably opposite of the goal.

Actually, both the IDP diet and Lyle McDonald recommend against hard exercise on this diet and both diets lead to rapid fat and weight loss which do not result in an especially doughy body unless you already had one. You should end up with more lean body mass and a lot less fat.

I looked Lyle up after that comment from Kriegsspiel - Kriegsspiel was right on target. McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook is very similar to IDP and recommends:

1. Protein intake set depending on bodyfat percentage and activity
2. Basically unlimited amount of vegetables (a few are off limits)
3. Either fish oil capsules or 1 tbsp of flaxseed oil per day for EFAs
4. A basic multivitamin/mineral supplement, calcium, magnesium and phosphorous.

According to the handbook at least one study has found that the addition of a large amount of aerobic activity (roughly 6 hours per week) to a protein sparing modified fast increased the drop in metabolic rate that occurred. It didnt increase weight loss over the length of the study (4 weeks) either. Basically the caloric burn of the exercise led to an adaptive decrease in metabolic rate.

Anything but the mildest aerobic activity is not recommended on the crash diet. Thirty to forty minutes a few times per week would be it. Weight training 2-3 times per week with a basic full body routine is recommended as the best choice on this diet. One exercise per bodypart for a few heavy sets is more than plenty. The handbook states that, in beginners, this is usually more than sufficient to increase lean body mass and in regular exercisers, to maintain it.


Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2013, 09:28:19 PM »
Actually, both the IDP diet and Lyle McDonald recommend against hard exercise on this diet and both diets lead to rapid fat and weight loss which do not result in an especially doughy body unless you already had one. You should end up with more lean body mass and a lot less fat.

I believe jba meant heavy weights, which is good. Generally you'd end up with less lean body mass in addition to a lot less fat. Very obese people also have much more LBM than a lean, light person, simply because LBM includes everything that is not fat: bones, connective tissue, etc. So an obese person losing a lot of LBM is not a terrible thing, per say. And lean people... well, you can't ride the edge of starvation for very long before you lose some muscle (which is what we're really concerned about anyways, amirite?).

Quote
I looked Lyle up after that comment from Kriegsspiel - Kriegsspiel was right on target. McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook is very similar to IDP and recommends:

1. Protein intake set depending on bodyfat percentage and activity
2. Basically unlimited amount of vegetables (a few are off limits)
3. Either fish oil capsules or 1 tbsp of flaxseed oil per day for EFAs
4. A basic multivitamin/mineral supplement, calcium, magnesium and phosphorous.

According to the handbook at least one study has found that the addition of a large amount of aerobic activity (roughly 6 hours per week) to a protein sparing modified fast increased the drop in metabolic rate that occurred. It didnt increase weight loss over the length of the study (4 weeks) either. Basically the caloric burn of the exercise led to an adaptive decrease in metabolic rate.

Anything but the mildest aerobic activity is not recommended on the crash diet. Thirty to forty minutes a few times per week would be it. Weight training 2-3 times per week with a basic full body routine is recommended as the best choice on this diet. One exercise per bodypart for a few heavy sets is more than plenty. The handbook states that, in beginners, this is usually more than sufficient to increase lean body mass and in regular exercisers, to maintain it.

Yea, well hell, for the general non-weight training public, a full body workout twice a week will be huge. For the rest of us, I can't even remember where this came from, but I believe the smart money says you can decrease volume and frequency by 80% without losing strength, as long as you keep the intensity (defined as the % of your 1rm) high.

captainawesome

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 151
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2013, 06:13:42 AM »
Anyone who says you can't lose more than 1-2 lbs a week is uneducated. The 1-2 lb standard was put out there because most people don't want to try to lose more than that, because it can be pretty harsh, but not impossible. I second all the reading for Lyle Mcdonald's work. Don't buy into this diet when you can read all about PSMF online for free. And to anyone who says that it "can't be done" and you can't lose 5lb a week, put this into perspective. Since 04 June I have lost 24lb doing a PSMF (rapid fat loss handbook) diet. I went from 212 at 17% bf to my current weight of 188 at 12%. I didn't do hours of cardio (which is retarded anyway) simply followed a high intensity, low volume weight training routine (ala Leangains and Reverse Pyramid Training) and the diet protocols laid out in the book. Will about the first 10 lbs of any diet usually be glycogen stores and water? yes. But after that it's about the work you put in. read Lyle's work, and I guarantee you will see results. Anything else is fluff or bs trying to sell you something

GuitarStv

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9442
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2013, 07:16:26 AM »
I'm so tired of reading about yet another fad diet. Rather than trying a magic bullet for weight loss, why not just learn to eat regular foods properly?

Simple rules that anyone can follow to lose weight:
- Don't eat junk. (Cookies, brownies, cake, potato chips, hot dogs, donuts, ice cream, etc.)
- Don't drink calories, just water. (No juice, creamy coffee drinks, soft drinks of any kind)
- Fill 50% of your plate with vegetables each meal. (No, french fries do not count as vegetables).
- Fill 25% of your plate with a protein source. (Eggs, fish, chicken, beef, etc.)
- Fill 25% of your plate with a carb. (Brown rice, sweet potatoes, quinoa, millet, oats, etc. are all good choices)
- Cook everything you eat.
- Only small snacks on fruit and unsalted nuts between meals.
- Eat as many plates of food as you want but keep the ratio the same (and eat the veggies first). It's actually difficult to eat too many calories when you're eating like this because you become full from the fiber.

I don't know anyone who follows those rules who has managed to become or even stay obese. Throw in some regular exercise and you'll become much fitter. The benefit of following the above rather than a fad diet is that . . . it's eating normally. You're not cutting out a food group, or losing a big source of nutrients, or anything else. You don't feel hungry all the time.

This is not rocket science people. . .

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2013, 08:36:03 AM »
Anyone who says you can't lose more than 1-2 lbs a week is uneducated. The 1-2 lb standard was put out there because most people don't want to try to lose more than that, because it can be pretty harsh, but not impossible. I second all the reading for Lyle Mcdonald's work. Don't buy into this diet when you can read all about PSMF online for free. And to anyone who says that it "can't be done" and you can't lose 5lb a week, put this into perspective. Since 04 June I have lost 24lb doing a PSMF (rapid fat loss handbook) diet. I went from 212 at 17% bf to my current weight of 188 at 12%. I didn't do hours of cardio (which is retarded anyway) simply followed a high intensity, low volume weight training routine (ala Leangains and Reverse Pyramid Training) and the diet protocols laid out in the book. Will about the first 10 lbs of any diet usually be glycogen stores and water? yes. But after that it's about the work you put in. read Lyle's work, and I guarantee you will see results. Anything else is fluff or bs trying to sell you something

Exactly. I read Lyle's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook yesterday. It is IDP without the expensive product, weigh-ins and general mainstream hype. He also does not use the protein powders, but likely because he is waiting to develop one he likes himself.

The IDP diet, imo, appeals to people with seriously disordered eating patterns as there is structure, accountability and no room for variance. The taste of the products is geared towards someone who is used to eating sweet stuff (protein powders, bars and puddings). It works for people who are grossly obese quite well.

I like Lyle's book a lot better than IDP. We do not have disordered eating patterns and my spouse is 20 pounds overweight. I wouldn't mind losing 5-7 and I definitely want to support him.

Could we get there on GuitarStv's advice? Maybe, but that is almost our current diet (no junk, no soda, no lattes, no juice) - except my husband likes ice-cream and we do drink red wine and I eat out sometimes when on the road. I also don't eat breakfast.

After reading Lyle McDonald's book I feel better about this diet. What he writes is logical.

I prefer a rapid and focussed approach to weight loss because it is motivating and interesting and not too difficult to do. It is an interesting experiment. I would say Lyle's approach works well for someone who does not have generally disordered eating and just wants to lose fat quickly and adjust to a maintenance diet after.

So, day two on this diet and I feel fine. I don't feel hungry or deprived. I also gave up coffee because I like it with cream and sugar and there is no point for me without.

GuitarStv

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9442
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2013, 09:32:10 AM »
Anyone who says you can't lose more than 1-2 lbs a week is uneducated. The 1-2 lb standard was put out there because most people don't want to try to lose more than that, because it can be pretty harsh, but not impossible. I second all the reading for Lyle Mcdonald's work. Don't buy into this diet when you can read all about PSMF online for free. And to anyone who says that it "can't be done" and you can't lose 5lb a week, put this into perspective. Since 04 June I have lost 24lb doing a PSMF (rapid fat loss handbook) diet. I went from 212 at 17% bf to my current weight of 188 at 12%.

It's not impressive to lose a lot of weight in a short period of time. It's impressive to maintain a healthy weight for many years afterwards. My main beef with weird fad diets is that they're very difficult for most to maintain. Either you have to keep buying specially portioned food from someone forever (since you've avoided learning how to eat in a healthy manner), or you are stuck with dietary restrictions that are very hard to maintain.

I think that with most people losing a lot of weight very quickly involves some pretty harsh sacrifices. It becomes very hard to keep fighting off urges to gorge on stuff when you're losing weight that quickly. It's totally doable though. I've cut about 10 lbs in a three week period, and then another 3-4 lbs of water weight immediately before wrestling tournaments. It really affected my mood, and I'm pretty sure that I could only complete the weight loss because I knew it was for a short-term goal. Long term, slower weight loss gives your body more time to adjust to losing weight more comfortably. Which means better odds of sticking with the plan.

Quote
Could we get there on GuitarStv's advice? Maybe, but that is almost our current diet (no junk, no soda, no lattes, no juice) - except my husband likes ice-cream and we do drink red wine and I eat out sometimes when on the road. I also don't eat breakfast.

It's rare that people eat anywhere near 50% of their plate of vegetables. I also forgot to mention that slathering veggies with salad dressing/cheese/bacon bits/butter/etc. will be counter productive. Wine, ice cream, and restaurant meals in sufficient quantities will sabotage any diet.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2013, 09:53:01 AM »
I agree fad diets are generally a bad thing because who can maintain that way of eating forever. Even worse, a lot of fad diets can lead to disordered eating. Disordered eating is a big problem in North America and is definitely to be avoided. I believe food deprivation can lead to disordered thinking/eating.

As far as this particular crash diet approach goes, it might not be for everyone.

For my friend, it did not affect her mood and was not difficult to maintain - and she had tried other diets before. Why is this? I don't know. It seems that some people do really well with the PSMF approach, while others find it difficult. My friend finds it easy and effortless - no desire to gorge or feeling of deprivation.

As I said, I'm not overweight. I'm normal range, although 5-7 pounds would be okay to drop. My husband wants to lose 20 pounds.

Your approach might be right for you, but it does not mean that there are not other approaches out there that work better for others. Some people need a program with a coach to succeed. Others just want to go slow and steady.

For me, this approach is a fun experiment with not too much at stake. Neither of us are particularly food oriented so I expect we won't have too much trouble.

If it works and I don't feel hungry (like my friend) I will know that if I ever want to lose weight quickly for some reason that this works and does not compromise basic nutrition.

I think the easiest part of this type of diet experiment is that you don't have to think too much. You just follow a routine.

jba302

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2013, 12:48:37 PM »
I believe jba meant heavy weights, which is good. Generally you'd end up with less lean body mass in addition to a lot less fat. Very obese people also have much more LBM than a lean, light person, simply because LBM includes everything that is not fat: bones, connective tissue, etc. So an obese person losing a lot of LBM is not a terrible thing, per say. And lean people... well, you can't ride the edge of starvation for very long before you lose some muscle (which is what we're really concerned about anyways, amirite?).

Yea, well hell, for the general non-weight training public, a full body workout twice a week will be huge. For the rest of us, I can't even remember where this came from, but I believe the smart money says you can decrease volume and frequency by 80% without losing strength, as long as you keep the intensity (defined as the % of your 1rm) high.

Yes, I meant heavy lifting. I think the standard LISS non-specified cardio a lot of people do is stupid. Something like a reverse pyramid... although to be frank, if you are untrained in the 90%+ range you'd probably fuck yourself up after a week or two of no carbs where the perceived intensity is going to be through the roof. I've never seen a specific volume/intensity reduction recommendation though for cutting, and it would be interesting to extrapolate further.


totoro I will say I respect the "testing the waters" approach to the diet. I've done a lot of playing around with my food intake, including ori's warrior diet (which works if you are a big eater!) and it's fun to see what your body responds to. Good luck with the carb cut, the population of women that can handle low carb diets is very low. I know my wife would probably kill me in my sleep if she restricted carbs for more than 2 days lol.

I would also like to point out something that amused me in captainawesome's post -
"Anyone who says you can't lose more than 1-2 lbs a week is uneducated."

Here's some fun perspective for you (and I actually agree with the rest of your post, so this is just to give you shit)- you went from 212/176 LBM to 188/165 LBM. So a 12 pound LBM loss in 5.2 weeks. That's not good, even assuming half of it is woosh you are losing a pound of LBM a week. There's definitely more ideal ways to handle that and be further on the good side of the 1:1 fat:muscle movement ratio. That's why you want to be in a better range of 1-2 lbs fat / week, so you don't dump muscle like it's going out of style.

I edited this to not lose the point here, especially with a water woosh loss it gets tricky.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 01:22:24 PM by jba302 »

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2013, 12:29:03 PM »
Well, day 3.

I don't feel hungry. To be honest, I have to make myself eat the food. The worst was when I decided to try heating up the protein shake and having it warm. Warm lumps of protein are not tasty.

My husband is down four pounds. I haven't weighed myself but I'll bet I've lost 3-4 pounds too. At this rate I'll need to stop in a few days anyway.

I would say this diet is extremely effective for fast fat loss, but it turns eating into a chore.

Storypage

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: Rural Oklahoma
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2013, 01:36:43 PM »

If you eat enough of the good stuff, there isn't room for the bad.

--Juices from fruits and veggies
--Limit preprocessed foods (none, if you can do it, and cheaper from scratch, anyway)
--Lots of fruits and veggies
--Water not soda or sugar drinks
--More fruits and veggies
--Limit high starch stuff
--Meat once a day and only a small portion
--Replace chips with nuts (good fat replacing bad)
--Add fruits and veggies

In case you can't tell, I have fruits and veggies all over my house and on my desk at work. I've lost 25 pounds in the last two months without even trying. I was actually just trying to eat better, but the weight loss apparently comes with it. Haven't felt better in years.

And it is super cheap.

"There are too many books in the world to read in a single lifetime; you have to draw the line somewhere." --Diane Setterfield, The Thirteenth Tale

What I'm reading now: Mindless Eating: Why We Eat More Than We Think, by Brian Wansink.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2013, 02:34:37 PM »

If you eat enough of the good stuff, there isn't room for the bad.

--Juices from fruits and veggies
--Limit preprocessed foods (none, if you can do it, and cheaper from scratch, anyway)
--Lots of fruits and veggies
--Water not soda or sugar drinks
--More fruits and veggies
--Limit high starch stuff
--Meat once a day and only a small portion
--Replace chips with nuts (good fat replacing bad)
--Add fruits and veggies

In case you can't tell, I have fruits and veggies all over my house and on my desk at work. I've lost 25 pounds in the last two months without even trying. I was actually just trying to eat better, but the weight loss apparently comes with it. Haven't felt better in years.

And it is super cheap.

That is great! Congratulations!

We already do eat this way but my spouse has recently gained some weight and is also more tired than usual. He had blood tests done and everything is good, but he's not happy with the 20 extra lbs. Part of the weight gain might be icecream-related, but he ate that before too. It's almost

I don't mind trying out some experiments to help him drop the weight quickly, but I agree your approach is great and easy maintenance.


totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2013, 10:01:15 AM »
Well, this is interesting.

Yesterday afternoon there was a shift and I started to feel really good and energetic - mentally and physically.

This morning I woke up with a metallic taste in my mouth and no hunger whatsoever. These are both signs of ketosis. I feel pretty darn good still too.

The weight loss part is clearly working. Last night my husband weighed himself and he was down five pounds with clothes on. My pants are looser.

I experimented with recipes and smoothies yesterday and have come up with some versions we like, so the food part is less dreadful too. Eating that many permitted vegetables is harder when you don't like salad.

I think this is a good opportunity for him and I to drop a few pounds and then we are thinking of shifting to paleo.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2013, 01:47:30 PM »
Hubby weighed himself this morning and he has lost 7.6 pounds in four days now. I don't know what is water or not but he feels good - no cravings, no hunger. This ketosis thing makes it easier.

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2013, 05:00:58 PM »
You can use bodyfat calipers to determine how much of the weight is fat. Just practice on and measure each other, and you'll get consistent readings, which is the important part.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2013, 05:07:20 PM »
Good idea. We have them and he used them before he started. I'll remind him about that.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2013, 08:05:46 AM »
Day 5. Haven't used the calipers yet but hubby is down only 1/2 pound this morning. Much less than yesterday but seems more normal.

I woke up at 6am ready to go this morning. Much more energetic than usual. I'm not sure if that is because I've had a week off work or because of the diet.

It does make me wonder about the sugar/wheat/gluten stuff a bit and any impact it might have on energy levels. These items are now out of our diet so it will be interesting to see what happens when they get added back in.

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2013, 09:17:32 AM »
Very low carbs can cause sleep issues.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2013, 09:16:52 AM »
Day 6. Hubby is down another 1/2 pound - total weight loss is 8 1/2 pounds in six days now. Haven't used the calipers yet - he wants to wait until he reaches his goal.

I'm feeling very good - more energetic. My complaints about the food are gone.

I'm blending spinach and baby bok choi leaves with the protein shakes and it has improved the flavour a lot. We have both switched to salads with cut vegetables (cucumber, peppers, red onion, fried mushrooms), protein (salmon/chicken/pork loin/steak) and home-made dressing (various mixes using soya, fresh ginger, chili paste, fresh garlic, pepper, rice vinegar, olive oil, cilantro, green onions). I'm not generally a salad fan but I like these ones now. Things taste a bit different in general.

Ketosis is working really well - no hunger and no crashes/spikes in blood sugar (I'm prone to these). I bought the Atkins low carb peanut butter and chocolate bars which taste processed, but work for any cravings.

Our kids were away yesterday and we worked for ten hours on our renovations and, with breaks, were able to maintain a good pace.

Our diet has been:

Breakfast - Protein shake - powder plus greens plus ice - multivitamin tablet
Lunch - salad with protein and dressing
Snack - bar or boiled eggs
Dinner - salad with protein and dressing (we have skipped this the past two days because we were not hungry after having a bar)
Snack - Protein shake - powder plus greens plus ice - calcium, magnesium, potassium tablets, omega 3 fish oil

Sea Salt and olive oil for cooked foods and in dressings.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 08:28:30 PM by totoro »

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2013, 09:02:19 PM »
End of Day 6.

I've lost all almost all the weight I am comfortable losing and am going to stop soon.

Hubby is going to keep going for the last ten pounds or so. I have to go away for 5 days so we've set him up with food and shakes and snacks while I'm gone. Given his current rate of weight loss he could reach his goal of losing 20 pounds in 2.5 weeks total time on the diet.

Today was harder. We put in another reno day. I got tired. Too much heavy lifting on a reduced calorie diet maybe. Hubby felt it too. We still got quite a bit done, but less energetic than yesterday.

Here's my take on this diet. It totally works for rapid fat loss. There is a visible difference between day 1 and day 6.

It is easy after the second day when ketosis kicks in because you simply do not get hungry - at all - if you follow the plan.

If you have developed any bad eating habits this will help you break them because sugar/carbs/alcohol/dairy are cut out for long enough to create a change.

Doing this worked well for us. I would recommend it to my friends on the DIY plan as a fast short-term solution to extra fat while maintaining muscle. I would do it again if I gained weight.

Is it safe? I'm not a doctor, but many doctors recommend it. It is actually one of the treatments for epilepsy too. It would not be recommended for some people like those with kidney issues because of the high protein content.

Did I check with my dr first? No. I'm pretty healthy and I'm comfortable with this level of experimentation. Probably wiser to ask a doctor first though.

BuzzardsBay

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 77
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2013, 10:38:51 AM »
I know at least 6 people who have used Ideal Protein. All had great results. Once they hit their target weight they went back to eating regular food. All are back to the weight they used to be. A couple of them weight even more. I don't think it's a healthy way to lose weight. Please be careful.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2013, 12:27:27 PM »
Thanks. I'm transitioning off due to reaching goal weight loss. So for me it is a little over a week. Hubby will be another week and a few days.

As far as IDP or any protein-sparing rapid fat loss diet goes, seems easy to follow and easy to lose weight on imo. Weight loss has been quite rapid

I agree there is no magic to weight loss or weight gain - it is in what you eat and how much you exercise.

As far as gaining back the weight, time will tell. I have a plan for some diet changes and feel good about implementing them.

The experiment has been fun because of the results though!

gdborton

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Muncie, Indiana
    • Gary Borton
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2013, 01:35:23 PM »
I want to throw it out there that weight loss is really hard to track over a short time period, it could have been any number of things that changed the scales. I've got about three weeks worth of weight and diet tracking information on my blog, that really shows day to day weight fluctuations have little to do with what you eat.

I don't doubt that the two of you lost weight (congrats by the way), just be prepared in the case that 5-6 lbs of it was water weight or just general fluctuation.
If you know me well enough to ask for money, you should know not to ask for money.

http://garyborton.com
Sole developer for - http://ploutus.com

gdborton

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Muncie, Indiana
    • Gary Borton
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2013, 01:55:37 PM »
I feel like that came off as some sort of a plug, here is a chart from my one of my recorded weeks so you don't need to leave MMM.

If you know me well enough to ask for money, you should know not to ask for money.

http://garyborton.com
Sole developer for - http://ploutus.com

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2013, 02:27:03 PM »
I like your blog title "Goal Met Sexy Obtained" :)

Good job!

Have you read the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook by Lyle McDonald? He says some of the same things as you and doesn't do cardio but focusses on lifting too.

Also, I'm not sure if you read through all the previous posts on this thread? There has been some discussion on the pros/cons of this approach.

We have definitely lost fat. It is visible. This is not normal fluctuation, how could it be on a calorie restricted diet like this that creates such a significant caloric deficit? A few pounds is probably water too tho.

What you are doing is working for you - and has resulted in diet changes it sounds like? Seems like a good approach.

gdborton

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Muncie, Indiana
    • Gary Borton
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2013, 02:49:38 PM »
I skimmed the comments, so I may have missed a few relative bits. A lb of fat is ~3,500 calories, so to lose that a day requires a very large deficit starting with a large base.

Quote
What you are doing is working for you - and has resulted in diet changes it sounds like? Seems like a good approach.

I'm a numbers guy, so the math is what made this work for me. I wouldn't say that my diet has actually changed too drastically, I still ate pretty much the same stuff just less of it. I'm done with it now (~40lbs down from my highest this year), and I'm starting to work on bulking up some.
If you know me well enough to ask for money, you should know not to ask for money.

http://garyborton.com
Sole developer for - http://ploutus.com

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2013, 03:06:53 PM »
I see - so for actual fat loss if you are at a caloric deficit of 1500 a day it would take three days to create this level of fat loss (assuming you were not super lean to start with)?

That seems pretty logical and my quick google search seems to back it up, as does Lyle McDonald's work.

So my husband has probably only lost 2.5 pounds of fat and 7.5 pounds of non-fat... hopefully just water. If that is the case, he can expect to lose about 2 pounds of fat a week going forward if he stays on this plan.

I agree there is no real magic, just math.

happy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3604
  • Location: NSW Australia
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2013, 12:42:31 AM »
Thanks for this thread Totoro.

I'm a lot of kg overweight and being a postmenopausal woman who has spent her life dieting ...trying to lose weight and maintain it is a real problem. I should add I put on weight eating the regular healthy diet that everyone recommends. My mustachian tendencies now are increasingly motivating me, after all I am obviously eating more than I need!

At the beginning of the year I committed to eat Primal for a year... and lost 5kg (11lbs), and then plateaued. Pretty typical for me on a weight loss program. Once I stopped losing I lost motivation as usual, but kept off grains and sugar. I definitely feel better off glutein but am not coeliac. But eating potato and rice 3 or 4 times a week, a little red wine and dark chocolate, well then weight started creeping back on.

I was about to try intermittent fasting and try to get back some weight loss but then read this thread. I also got Lyle Mcdonalds book and have commenced but not using any fancy protein powder. On day 4 I'm 4.5lbs down. As I'm BMI 35, I get to have 2 re-feed meals a week. I like the effort Lyle has gone to to distill what is the minimum you can eat, whilst not doing too much damage to your body. So far I'm liking it, its minimalism is revealing how much more food than I needed I was eating. If I can lose 2lb a week consistently I'll be stoked.
Journalling at Happy Aussie Downshifter

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2013, 07:29:12 AM »
Isn't that great Happy!

My very best friend is obese and looking at going for weight loss surgery. We been friends for 30 years and she has struggled with weight most of these years.

I'm going to talk to her about trying this with me as her coach - would be free and if we can get her to ketosis that should make it easier. I'm not sure if it will work - or if she even wants to try - because she does have compulsive eating issues, but it is worth a shot to talk to her about as she has a couple of years on the waitlist for the surgery.

I'm glad this is working for you. It has been an eye-opener for us. It is easy to gain weight if you consistently overeat. It is way easier to overeat a bit than consistently undereat a bit because of the hunger mechanism. That speaks a lot to the idea of putting some effort into understanding your caloric needs and not exceeding them regularly.

jba302

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2013, 11:15:45 AM »
Isn't that great Happy!

My very best friend is obese and looking at going for weight loss surgery. We been friends for 30 years and she has struggled with weight most of these years.

I'm going to talk to her about trying this with me as her coach - would be free and if we can get her to ketosis that should make it easier. I'm not sure if it will work - or if she even wants to try - because she does have compulsive eating issues, but it is worth a shot to talk to her about as she has a couple of years on the waitlist for the surgery.

Good for you to help her through it. I know a couple people that ate their way through a lap band back to pre-surgery weight. Probably a lot of emotional shit going on, for men and women it's always something else, rarely is it just about food.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2013, 11:25:54 AM »
I know. Sucks. I don't think it is just emotional, although that is the biggest piece. I think there is an interplay of factors including biochemistry and genetic predisposition.

Also, it is not the lap band - it is gastric bypass. Seems to have a higher success rate. I went to part of the consult with her. I found it frightening.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2013, 04:28:13 PM »
This morning (DAY 8) hubby was down 10.3 pounds. He's feeling pretty good still. Getting tired of the same stuff, but that is about it.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2013, 10:30:10 AM »
Day 10 and hubby is down 12 pounds and going strong.

He has adjusted his goal weight downwards because the weight loss has been so rapid and relatively easy that he knows he can do it. Instead of 20 pounds he is now looking to reach 25 pounds off his starting weight.

He is 5'10" with a large frame and good muscle base and is looking at an end point of 172.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2013, 11:26:25 AM »
Day 14 and he is down 14.5 pounds this morning!

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2013, 08:12:31 AM »
Well, yesterday we took a diet break day and went out for Vietnamese food and had some wine.

A break is recommended by Lyle McDonald, but not by the Ideal Protein Diet. There is some research to support the notion that those who take diet breaks are more successful in losing and maintaining weight loss after. We'll see if it makes it harder or not. I'm interested to see if it causes him to leave ketosis and feel more hunger.



totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2013, 10:58:29 AM »
Hmmm... the one-day diet break made things a bit harder.

My husband gained two pounds from the one day, which is no big deal, but two days later and he is still feeling hungrier than pre-break.

His take is that it is easier to just stick to the diet until the ideal weight is reached and have a maintenance diet/exercise plan to transition to.

My husband is pretty happy with the 5% drop in bmi.

jba302

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2013, 01:41:35 PM »
Salt+carb bounce sucks when you are checking numbers often. What is your normal daily carb intake on this diet?

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2013, 02:05:45 PM »
20-40 g per day is the target range. Think he is hitting that. Today is fine - back on the no hunger track.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
Re: Ideal Protein Diet
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2013, 02:20:22 PM »
Found someone else following an inexpensive DIY approach who has lost 73 pounds and done a good write-up on it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aTvwp0Hx8-VHcsshVL5XyP04nfc4L0eYix15XmSRwFQ/edit