Author Topic: overseeding our lawn - How to? (Read 10039 times)

MrSal

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overseeding our lawn - How to?
« on: August 26, 2016, 02:02:44 PM »
I know there is probably a gazillion threads like this around the internet but somehow I just got even more confused.

Our backyard is currently in so so condition and I thought of doing a proper overseeding during the next month.

I live in central PA so northeast for the most part.

I have been reading and my plan is this:

- Spray the lawn with some weed killer - should this step be made? I have a bunch of weeds around and lots of clover areas ... I was thinking of spraying so itd kill the most possible so Id have more area to overseed or completely seed. Should this step be made or should I disregard it? If I apply it, do I need to wait a certain amount of time before overseeding?

- Aerate and dethatch the lawn.

- Add some compost soil - what should I buy? everytime i go to a store the more confused i get.

- Overseed - I have some doubts here... everytime i read and go to a store the more confused i get... Even online it seems all reviews just vamp about Scotts and Penningtons. I have the feeling its all marketing or something I dunno. I am not originally from the US so I am not very familiar with brands. I would like just a good plain seed bag with no fillers and good seed. The type of grass I dont know but I prefer fine grass than the thicker blades.

- Add some fertilizer - I bought some Milorganite organic fertilizer according to some reviews and videos they say its pretty good. Hopefully did the right decision buying it.

- Add some more top soil on top just very thin layer

- Water and water and water and then mow. - Since we are close to winter season should I fertilize again later before winter? Are those winterizer feed for grass any true or just marketing and a normal fertilizer is enough before grass goes dormant? What are the steps here. Im pretty much a noob.


- Then come spring I will do the pre-emergent for the weeds and crabgrass and hopefully what I have now wont come that time around.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 07:46:36 AM »
For the composted soil, don't buy it in a store. Call around to some local horse farms/boarding/training places. Around me, they will literally *give* you the soil for free. You have to haul it yourself, but they'll load it for you with a tractor. $20 for a rental truck from Lowe's/Home Depot/Menards, and you can take a whole lotta nice rich dirt home.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 04:27:30 PM »
how about the steps? is this the proper way to do it?

Im just in doubt on if i should kill weeds before overseeding or not... if i do, i assume i have to wait a couple weeks for the weeds to die and the rake the soil in order to clean the soil a little bit no?

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2016, 05:22:23 PM »
I'm in a similar situation and found this link to a series of steps which sounded good:

http://yardcare.com/restore/restoring-a-tired-lawn/eight-steps-to-restoring-your-lawn/
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zolotiyeruki

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 06:05:19 PM »
I'm no lawn expert, but only chimed in because I saw a cheaper way to get good dirt :)

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2016, 10:09:59 AM »
Killing as many weeds as you can is a good idea. However, pay attention to labels. Some weed killers require a lengthy waiting period before you can throw seed down.

Here is what I have done and would do. Use weed killer to take out as many weeds as possible using something that will allow you to seed in a timely manner. For thicker weedy areas perhaps even use Round-Up (Glyphosate). You can seed the next day after using Round-Up.

Right before you get ready to overseed, mow the lawn as low as you can. Collect the grass clippings while doing so. There is a greater chance of seed to soil contact. Then top dress with either compost or peat moss to keep the seeds moist. Make sure you water daily perhaps several times per day. If the seeds continue to dry out they have less of a chance of sprouting. Also throw down some starter fertilizer.

You can throw the Milorganite down if you want. It won't hurt anything. At my old house I fertilized with Milorganite every single week during spring summer and fall (yes you read that right). I had a high maintenance Kentucky Bluegrass lawn. That was too much maintenance for me. I maintain a low maintenance lawn now. Milorganite when it looks rough. Kill weeds when they pop up mostly.

I would not aerate or dethatch. Manual aeration brings weed seeds to the soil, lot's of them. I use to chemically aerate, and it worked wonderfully. Grab a long screw driver and walk around the lawn pushing it into the ground. If it goes in without a lot of effort, then you are good. If you have to pound it into the ground I would try some chemical aeration. The guys at Aroundtheyard.com have a good formula you can mix up and spray on the lawn. It's easier, cheaper and good for the soil.

Just my 2 cents form a former lawn nut.

Goldielocks

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2016, 11:20:18 AM »
Overseeding is pretty simple, if you are lazy.

-Mix seed and dirt / compost, about 1 part seed to 3 parts compost.
-Sprinkle over lawn, heavily on patchy areas.
-Water well. then sprinkle lightly once or twice a day for two weeks (so it does not dry out for more than a few hours)

Seed won't take well if there is no bare areas under, but I find that means that the existing lawn itself can be bulked up, so seeding not really needed there.

If you have dead spots /dead thatch, or weed masses to cover, remove / scuff / rake them up to expose soil. Weeds mixed into lawn wont really be cured by overseeding.

Best results between 18'C and 25'C, for grass to start.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2016, 02:32:18 PM »
Overseeding is pretty simple, if you are lazy.

-Mix seed and dirt / compost, about 1 part seed to 3 parts compost.
-Sprinkle over lawn, heavily on patchy areas.
-Water well. then sprinkle lightly once or twice a day for two weeks (so it does not dry out for more than a few hours)

Seed won't take well if there is no bare areas under, but I find that means that the existing lawn itself can be bulked up, so seeding not really needed there.

If you have dead spots /dead thatch, or weed masses to cover, remove / scuff / rake them up to expose soil. Weeds mixed into lawn wont really be cured by overseeding.

Best results between 18'C and 25'C, for grass to start.

yes lots of small weeds/crabgrass and clover... so i need to take the top part of the soil? or can i just kill them with some kind of weed killer first?

Goldielocks

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2016, 02:56:52 PM »
Overseeding is pretty simple, if you are lazy.

-Mix seed and dirt / compost, about 1 part seed to 3 parts compost.
-Sprinkle over lawn, heavily on patchy areas.
-Water well. then sprinkle lightly once or twice a day for two weeks (so it does not dry out for more than a few hours)

Seed won't take well if there is no bare areas under, but I find that means that the existing lawn itself can be bulked up, so seeding not really needed there.

If you have dead spots /dead thatch, or weed masses to cover, remove / scuff / rake them up to expose soil. Weeds mixed into lawn wont really be cured by overseeding.

Best results between 18'C and 25'C, for grass to start.

yes lots of small weeds/crabgrass and clover... so i need to take the top part of the soil? or can i just kill them with some kind of weed killer first?
I just pull up or dig the bad pat he and scuff up he dirt with all rake.

Clover is actually quite good for your lawn. It mows well.

I am a lazy lawn keeper. If it's green And I keep it cut short, and it sort of hides, it can stay. Lawn is 15 to 20 years old.

If it is plantains thistle or dandelions, I hand pull.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2016, 06:38:18 PM »
After much deliberation I decided on the seeds to buy... Most likely will go with Pennsylvania Mix of Pennington or Black Beauty Grass from Johnathan Green if I can buy a seller nearby... The Northeast Mix from Pennington looks good as well ...

Went to the store today and its amazingh the amount of filler Scotts had... only 50% were seeds on their most pure product.

Thinking of doing a mix of Kentucky and Perennial Rye along with tall fescues. Strill trying to decide on the mix if I should just buy outright or by separate and make my own mix.



MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2016, 06:03:34 AM »
You can spot treat the clover with CCO (Chickweed, Clover and Oxalis killer). About $7/bottle of concentrate at the big box store. General weed killer will knock out the crabgrass. Again I wouldn't touch the soil. You always have thousands of weed seeds mostly lying dormant in your soil. If you disturb the soil you will be providing them with conditions to sprout. Best to not disturb the soil. Once you throw seed down you can't touch that area with any sort of weed killer for quite a while, so the new grass and any new weeds will be competing for space. The weeds generally win and you'll be doing this all over again next year.

Also it's generally not good to mix a bunch of different grass. Tall Fescue typically germinates much sooner than KBG. KBG is a higher maintenance grass as well. Believe me when I tell you that. I maintained a half acre pure KBG lawn, hence the reason for feeding Milorganite every weekend. And it requires more water. KBG also spreads so it could potentially crowd out the tall fescue in the long run. If you want lower maintenance I would stick with mainly tall fescue.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2016, 06:10:00 AM »
Thanks for the input.. After reading for a while I think I'll just add some liquid aerator instead.

Regarding the grass isn't tall fescue more prune to disease and not resistant to walking around or rough play?

What do you think of Pennington? I read some bad things about store bought seed ... Was thinking of buying from seed superstore instead ... Any input here? Thanks

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2016, 07:35:28 AM »
Actually KBG is more prone to disease . I had a terrible time controlling fungus once I converted from tall fescue to KBG. I spent a lot of money and time trying to prevent fungus throughout the season. The folks that bought our house had such a horrible time with the fungus they ended up killing off a section of KBG and putting tall fescue back in. I don't think they were happy with the high maintenance KBG lawn. The KBG didn't cause the fungus (soil borne) but it was less resistant to it.

Store bought seed is mostly crap. Scotts, Pennington, etc. Seed Superstore is very overpriced. I bought form them originally several years ago but found much cheaper places online. Try a place like Preferredseed. I used to pour over grass seed charts to find the best cultivators for my area. Scotts and Pennington seeds routinely ranked at the bottom. You'll pay a bit more for better seed, but you'll have better disease resistance, and an overall better looking lawn if taken care of properly.

I did find a local feed store that sold higher quality tall fescue seed, so I buy from them now. I will warn you, when I last checked (a couple years ago) good grass seed prices were shooting up quite rapidly. Could be different now.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2016, 02:25:42 PM »
Actually KBG is more prone to disease . I had a terrible time controlling fungus once I converted from tall fescue to KBG. I spent a lot of money and time trying to prevent fungus throughout the season. The folks that bought our house had such a horrible time with the fungus they ended up killing off a section of KBG and putting tall fescue back in. I don't think they were happy with the high maintenance KBG lawn. The KBG didn't cause the fungus (soil borne) but it was less resistant to it.

Store bought seed is mostly crap. Scotts, Pennington, etc. Seed Superstore is very overpriced. I bought form them originally several years ago but found much cheaper places online. Try a place like Preferredseed. I used to pour over grass seed charts to find the best cultivators for my area. Scotts and Pennington seeds routinely ranked at the bottom. You'll pay a bit more for better seed, but you'll have better disease resistance, and an overall better looking lawn if taken care of properly.

I did find a local feed store that sold higher quality tall fescue seed, so I buy from them now. I will warn you, when I last checked (a couple years ago) good grass seed prices were shooting up quite rapidly. Could be different now.

I found a seed mix TTTF, when reading around forums that supposedly is good. Its the Black Beauty Ultra from Johnathan Green ... ever heard of it?

Thanks for the input ... ill look into preferredseed altghouhg from a quick look prices dont seem much different that superseed

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2016, 05:08:27 AM »
I've never heard of Johnathan Green. If you can find out what cultivators are in it, you can find grass seed charts and figure out how good it is and if it's good for your area.

I also had a bad experience with Seed Superstore. I ended up with a few seeds mixed into the seed I ordered. Normally not a big deal except it ended up being Bermuda grass, which is as close to impossible to kill as any living thing on the planet (quite serious). It spread like wildfire and I had to nuke areas of the lawn several times. I got it under control but it was still coming back. So Seed Superstore was put on my "do not buy from" list. Perhaps their prices have come down or others have gone up.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2016, 08:19:20 AM »
this is the label



where can i find the charts?

I tried NTEP but nothing...

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 08:31:07 AM »
There are so many varieties of seed out there I know the NTEP doesn't cover them all. I can't say for sure anything about the seed you chose. I say put it down take care of it and see what happens. More importantly take care of that soil. Milorganite is great for it and any other organic product. Stay away from the chemical fertilizers (outside of starter fertilizer and winterizer).

boarder42

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 08:38:38 AM »
i'm looking for a good fescue kentucky blue blend that a local store has but was figuring there has to be a cheaper way to do all this than going to the local store to get my supplies. i like to optimize everything and paying retail for a fertilizer plan and sead seems to make me sick to my stomach. here are links to the systems from the local grass supply store and the grass seed i plan to use

http://grasspad.com/fescue.html

http://grasspad.com/idiotproofprogram.html

i would rather not buy all that retail and would like to find equivalent seeds and fertilizers i can set slickdeal alerts for. anyone have any insight of how helpful doing all this would be? we let our lawn go to crap and now we need to repair it.
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MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2016, 08:42:30 AM »
There are so many varieties of seed out there I know the NTEP doesn't cover them all. I can't say for sure anything about the seed you chose. I say put it down take care of it and see what happens. More importantly take care of that soil. Milorganite is great for it and any other organic product. Stay away from the chemical fertilizers (outside of starter fertilizer and winterizer).

Should i put starter fertilizer on the overseeding then? or should i just use Milorganite? Or would top soil/compost achieve the same effect of starter fertilizer?

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 08:45:29 AM »
i'm looking for a good fescue kentucky blue blend that a local store has but was figuring there has to be a cheaper way to do all this than going to the local store to get my supplies. i like to optimize everything and paying retail for a fertilizer plan and sead seems to make me sick to my stomach. here are links to the systems from the local grass supply store and the grass seed i plan to use

http://grasspad.com/fescue.html

http://grasspad.com/idiotproofprogram.html

i would rather not buy all that retail and would like to find equivalent seeds and fertilizers i can set slickdeal alerts for. anyone have any insight of how helpful doing all this would be? we let our lawn go to crap and now we need to repair it.

If you go the slickdeals route I probably would recommend Pennington at Lowes the PA state mix or Northeast mix ... out of the seeds there it seemed to be the one with least fillers and 99.9% pure seed.

Use a 15 off 50 coupon from Lowes and youre getting 30% discount + 5% cashback at ebates + buying gift card 10% discount

boarder42

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2016, 08:49:24 AM »
is there any comprehensive site out there focused around doing this on a budget and exactly what you should do? if someone here could do a write up on lawn care how to maybe for each zone of the country that would be awesome.
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MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2016, 09:42:22 AM »
There are so many varieties of seed out there I know the NTEP doesn't cover them all. I can't say for sure anything about the seed you chose. I say put it down take care of it and see what happens. More importantly take care of that soil. Milorganite is great for it and any other organic product. Stay away from the chemical fertilizers (outside of starter fertilizer and winterizer).

Should i put starter fertilizer on the overseeding then? or should i just use Milorganite? Or would top soil/compost achieve the same effect of starter fertilizer?

You can do both. Definitely put starter down right before you seed. Compost/topsoil is great at encouraging seed to soil contact and keeping the seed moist. It's not really meant as a fertilizer. Milorganite feeds your soil, like most organic products, not your grass. You can pretty much put it down whenever. It won't burn your lawn, even in the middle of summer.

snogirl

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2016, 09:55:41 AM »
Rent a dethatcher & add some seed with clover plus water.
Pull weeds as necessary.
The dethatching made my lawn so freaking healthy...
my chitzy lawn was the superstar in the neighborhood, people stopped to marvel lol....
Mind you, This was after it was bringing down property values, lol. Not really, my neighbors were pi$$ed.
Well, I got the last laugh...

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2016, 10:07:19 AM »
i'm looking for a good fescue kentucky blue blend that a local store has but was figuring there has to be a cheaper way to do all this than going to the local store to get my supplies. i like to optimize everything and paying retail for a fertilizer plan and sead seems to make me sick to my stomach. here are links to the systems from the local grass supply store and the grass seed i plan to use

http://grasspad.com/fescue.html

http://grasspad.com/idiotproofprogram.html

i would rather not buy all that retail and would like to find equivalent seeds and fertilizers i can set slickdeal alerts for. anyone have any insight of how helpful doing all this would be? we let our lawn go to crap and now we need to repair it.

I wouldn't pay for a retail fertilizer plan. I did that for a couple years and kept wondering why my lawn always looked like garbage. Keeping your lawn in great shape "can" get expensive. But it doesn't have to be. Here is a brief overview of my "inexpensive" plan"

Spring:
- In early spring, find a pre-emergent WITHOUT fertilizer. If you put down winterizer correctly, your lawn should have plenty of Nitrogen waking up from winter dormancy. There is no need to force even more growth. It's difficult to find pre-emergent without fertilizer, around me that is. This year I skipped and am battling a lot of weeds this summer. Also feeding your lawn now (chemical fertilizer that is) forces top growth at the expense of root growth. You need root growth for the all important hot dry summer months. Also make sure the pre-emergent is rather long lasting.

Late Spring:
- I usually hit the lawn with one application of Milorganite around May. If the lawn looks a little pale, I'll go double bag rate. Milorganite is organic so while I will typically see a bump in growth, the roots are also growing deeper into the soil. And I spot treat for weeds.

Summer:
- Absolutely nothing during summer, hot dry months. This is where folks tend to screw up. Those "fertilizer programs" typically have folks throwing down high nitrogen fertilizer which forces the grass to grow when it doesn't want to grow. In fact it may even want go dormant. I have no issues with my grass going dormant. If you throw down fertilizer you can expect to have to water the heck out of the lawn during the summer.

Late Summer/Early Fall:
- Typically around this time I assess the lawn. I apply weed killer to any weeds. I start fertilizing again with Milorganite. You can patch any bare spots. However if I am not going to throw down any grass seed, I hit it again with a pre-emergent for the fall weeds. Pre-emergent prevents anything from growing, even grass, so doesn't put down pre-emergent AND grass seed. On average about 75-80% of my fertilizer goes down between August and November.

Late Fall:
- Once your grass stops growing (NOTE: not while it's still growing), put down your winterizer.

I have found this plan to be satisfying. And, if you budget right, pretty cheap. Milorganite just went on sale at Wal-Mart around me for $3/bag. That's a helluva deal. I spent less than $50 and stocked up on fertilizer for the entire next year. Some things that I have learned when I was a huge lawn nut. The key to good grass is good soil. Organic fertilizers, matter etc. feed the soil. Chemical fertilizers feed the grass. Chemicals are ok for their intended purpose, like starting your lawn, preventing weeds etc. A thick lush lawn is the best weed preventer. And feeding the soil is the key to this.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2016, 12:04:06 PM »
Rent a dethatcher & add some seed with clover plus water.
Pull weeds as necessary.
The dethatching made my lawn so freaking healthy...
my chitzy lawn was the superstar in the neighborhood, people stopped to marvel lol....
Mind you, This was after it was bringing down property values, lol. Not really, my neighbors were pi$$ed.
Well, I got the last laugh...

detactcher is coming tomorrow so ill will surely be doing that!

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2016, 12:10:08 PM »
beginner stache, so sorry to ask but winterizer is really what? Fertilizer?

In order to start a new lawn/overseeding a start fertilizer is needed correct? However, because I am overseeding, my seeds are going to fight along the weeds since i dont have any pre emergent

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2016, 12:18:05 PM »
beginner stache, so sorry to ask but winterizer is really what? Fertilizer?

In order to start a new lawn/overseeding a start fertilizer is needed correct? However, because I am overseeding, my seeds are going to fight along the weeds since i dont have any pre emergent

Yes winterizer is just winter fertilizer.

Starter isn't "necessary" per say but it helps the new grass tremendously. I always make it a rule of thumb to put it down ANYTIME I throw seed down. If you have actively growing weeds, yes the new grass will fight with the weeds. If you nuked that area or applied weed killer and have dying weeds, you should be fine. Tall Fescue will germinate pretty quickly.

New grass LOVES nitrogen. I actually have some pure Urea leftover form a couple years ago I will probably put down when the new grass starts coming in.

boarder42

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2016, 12:29:41 PM »
i'm looking for a good fescue kentucky blue blend that a local store has but was figuring there has to be a cheaper way to do all this than going to the local store to get my supplies. i like to optimize everything and paying retail for a fertilizer plan and sead seems to make me sick to my stomach. here are links to the systems from the local grass supply store and the grass seed i plan to use

http://grasspad.com/fescue.html

http://grasspad.com/idiotproofprogram.html

i would rather not buy all that retail and would like to find equivalent seeds and fertilizers i can set slickdeal alerts for. anyone have any insight of how helpful doing all this would be? we let our lawn go to crap and now we need to repair it.

I wouldn't pay for a retail fertilizer plan. I did that for a couple years and kept wondering why my lawn always looked like garbage. Keeping your lawn in great shape "can" get expensive. But it doesn't have to be. Here is a brief overview of my "inexpensive" plan"

Spring:
- In early spring, find a pre-emergent WITHOUT fertilizer. If you put down winterizer correctly, your lawn should have plenty of Nitrogen waking up from winter dormancy. There is no need to force even more growth. It's difficult to find pre-emergent without fertilizer, around me that is. This year I skipped and am battling a lot of weeds this summer. Also feeding your lawn now (chemical fertilizer that is) forces top growth at the expense of root growth. You need root growth for the all important hot dry summer months. Also make sure the pre-emergent is rather long lasting.

Late Spring:
- I usually hit the lawn with one application of Milorganite around May. If the lawn looks a little pale, I'll go double bag rate. Milorganite is organic so while I will typically see a bump in growth, the roots are also growing deeper into the soil. And I spot treat for weeds.

Summer:
- Absolutely nothing during summer, hot dry months. This is where folks tend to screw up. Those "fertilizer programs" typically have folks throwing down high nitrogen fertilizer which forces the grass to grow when it doesn't want to grow. In fact it may even want go dormant. I have no issues with my grass going dormant. If you throw down fertilizer you can expect to have to water the heck out of the lawn during the summer.

Late Summer/Early Fall:
- Typically around this time I assess the lawn. I apply weed killer to any weeds. I start fertilizing again with Milorganite. You can patch any bare spots. However if I am not going to throw down any grass seed, I hit it again with a pre-emergent for the fall weeds. Pre-emergent prevents anything from growing, even grass, so doesn't put down pre-emergent AND grass seed. On average about 75-80% of my fertilizer goes down between August and November.

Late Fall:
- Once your grass stops growing (NOTE: not while it's still growing), put down your winterizer.

I have found this plan to be satisfying. And, if you budget right, pretty cheap. Milorganite just went on sale at Wal-Mart around me for $3/bag. That's a helluva deal. I spent less than $50 and stocked up on fertilizer for the entire next year. Some things that I have learned when I was a huge lawn nut. The key to good grass is good soil. Organic fertilizers, matter etc. feed the soil. Chemical fertilizers feed the grass. Chemicals are ok for their intended purpose, like starting your lawn, preventing weeds etc. A thick lush lawn is the best weed preventer. And feeding the soil is the key to this.

awesome thank you... do you have a pre emergent recommendation? also half our lawn is dead so we will be dethatching and seeding. we were shooting for the weekend of sept 10th here in KC assuming weather cooperates. detatcher will be here soon. what affordable starter fertilizer would you recommend as well as winterizer.
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MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2016, 01:18:24 PM »
i'm looking for a good fescue kentucky blue blend that a local store has but was figuring there has to be a cheaper way to do all this than going to the local store to get my supplies. i like to optimize everything and paying retail for a fertilizer plan and sead seems to make me sick to my stomach. here are links to the systems from the local grass supply store and the grass seed i plan to use

http://grasspad.com/fescue.html

http://grasspad.com/idiotproofprogram.html

i would rather not buy all that retail and would like to find equivalent seeds and fertilizers i can set slickdeal alerts for. anyone have any insight of how helpful doing all this would be? we let our lawn go to crap and now we need to repair it.

I wouldn't pay for a retail fertilizer plan. I did that for a couple years and kept wondering why my lawn always looked like garbage. Keeping your lawn in great shape "can" get expensive. But it doesn't have to be. Here is a brief overview of my "inexpensive" plan"

Spring:
- In early spring, find a pre-emergent WITHOUT fertilizer. If you put down winterizer correctly, your lawn should have plenty of Nitrogen waking up from winter dormancy. There is no need to force even more growth. It's difficult to find pre-emergent without fertilizer, around me that is. This year I skipped and am battling a lot of weeds this summer. Also feeding your lawn now (chemical fertilizer that is) forces top growth at the expense of root growth. You need root growth for the all important hot dry summer months. Also make sure the pre-emergent is rather long lasting.

Late Spring:
- I usually hit the lawn with one application of Milorganite around May. If the lawn looks a little pale, I'll go double bag rate. Milorganite is organic so while I will typically see a bump in growth, the roots are also growing deeper into the soil. And I spot treat for weeds.

Summer:
- Absolutely nothing during summer, hot dry months. This is where folks tend to screw up. Those "fertilizer programs" typically have folks throwing down high nitrogen fertilizer which forces the grass to grow when it doesn't want to grow. In fact it may even want go dormant. I have no issues with my grass going dormant. If you throw down fertilizer you can expect to have to water the heck out of the lawn during the summer.

Late Summer/Early Fall:
- Typically around this time I assess the lawn. I apply weed killer to any weeds. I start fertilizing again with Milorganite. You can patch any bare spots. However if I am not going to throw down any grass seed, I hit it again with a pre-emergent for the fall weeds. Pre-emergent prevents anything from growing, even grass, so doesn't put down pre-emergent AND grass seed. On average about 75-80% of my fertilizer goes down between August and November.

Late Fall:
- Once your grass stops growing (NOTE: not while it's still growing), put down your winterizer.

I have found this plan to be satisfying. And, if you budget right, pretty cheap. Milorganite just went on sale at Wal-Mart around me for $3/bag. That's a helluva deal. I spent less than $50 and stocked up on fertilizer for the entire next year. Some things that I have learned when I was a huge lawn nut. The key to good grass is good soil. Organic fertilizers, matter etc. feed the soil. Chemical fertilizers feed the grass. Chemicals are ok for their intended purpose, like starting your lawn, preventing weeds etc. A thick lush lawn is the best weed preventer. And feeding the soil is the key to this.

awesome thank you... do you have a pre emergent recommendation? also half our lawn is dead so we will be dethatching and seeding. we were shooting for the weekend of sept 10th here in KC assuming weather cooperates. detatcher will be here soon. what affordable starter fertilizer would you recommend as well as winterizer.

No problem. You really can't go wrong with Starter or Winterizer. It's about the only time I would say it's ok to use big box store fertilizer (Scott's, Pennington, etc.). I generally find fertilizer at local feed stores comparable but cheaper. I have used Scott's pre-emergent without fertilizer. It's the Halt's brand name still. They only sell it with fertilizer around me so I've purchased it online before (I believe through Amazon?). I've also used Lesco pre-emergent that has a small amount of 'K' in it. It's typically a 0-0-7 ratio. No Nitrogen though. A little Potassium is fine for the lawn in Spring. Lesco is hard to find around me as well.

I would check local feed stores or garden centers. Big box stores always try to sell you that weed n feed crap.

If you don't mind me asking, what's the purpose of renting a dethatcher? If you have a thatch problem I would recommend adding more organic nutrients to the soil. Thatch happens when organic matter is not being broken down fast enough, which means your soil is lacking in beneficial organisms. You need to build up the organic matter by feeding your soil. You can also throw down some compost to dispose of the thatch.

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2016, 01:25:42 PM »
For reference this is what they sell around me:
http://homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/2d/2d7575d4-8b3a-43a3-9c58-8b0b19aad5a2_400.jpg

This is what you really should be looking for:
http://homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/32/32e18399-e64f-4dab-b566-22c156d4ef06_300.jpg

There are a couple of Home Depots within reasonable driving distance of me that sometimes carry the latter. It's hit or miss. I believe the Lesco brand gives you 2.5-3 months of protection. Not sure about Scott's. You'll have to read the label. It's good to know if you plan on seeding in the fall.

boarder42

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2016, 01:53:29 PM »
dethatcher is b/c our lawn is mostly destroyed right now.

Here is my current plan for this fall then we'll likely follow yours.

1. mow to a height of 2 inches
2. detatch
3. overseed/reseed dead spots
4. put down a starter fertilizer
5. water this ???
6. mow to 4inch height once started
7. winterizer

should i put some milorganite down somewhere after the starter fertelizer maybe?
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MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2016, 04:51:31 PM »
dethatcher is b/c our lawn is mostly destroyed right now.

Here is my current plan for this fall then we'll likely follow yours.

1. mow to a height of 2 inches
2. detatch
3. overseed/reseed dead spots
4. put down a starter fertilizer
5. water this ???
6. mow to 4inch height once started
7. winterizer

should i put some milorganite down somewhere after the starter fertelizer maybe?

You can put milorganite before or after. Doesn't matter. I typically do before so I don't have to walk on the newly sprouted fragile seedlings. Plan looks good. Right before seeding though I would scalp the lawn. The lower the better. Make sure you bag the clippings. If you leave the grass longer, you'll have to mow sooner for any growing grass potentially moving/lifting new seeds.

Also once the new seedling start growing you actually want to mow lower the first 2-3 times. This pushes more energy into the roots and helps the grass grow stronger. That's usually when I put down pure Urea. But that isn't necessary.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2016, 05:11:01 PM »
beginner stache, so sorry to ask but winterizer is really what? Fertilizer?

In order to start a new lawn/overseeding a start fertilizer is needed correct? However, because I am overseeding, my seeds are going to fight along the weeds since i dont have any pre emergent

Yes winterizer is just winter fertilizer.

Starter isn't "necessary" per say but it helps the new grass tremendously. I always make it a rule of thumb to put it down ANYTIME I throw seed down. If you have actively growing weeds, yes the new grass will fight with the weeds. If you nuked that area or applied weed killer and have dying weeds, you should be fine. Tall Fescue will germinate pretty quickly.

New grass LOVES nitrogen. I actually have some pure Urea leftover form a couple years ago I will probably put down when the new grass starts coming in.

Yes I applied 4 days ago a round of Weed B Gone - about 6% 2,4D along with Quinclorac and Dimbane ... so hopefully the weeds will start dying a bit... Tomorrow or so I am going to water the lawn with baby shampoo for aerating it - I am going to skip the manual aeration in order to avoid bringing weed seeds to surface ... - and then detatch it ...

Any starter fertilizer youd recommend or a good store box fertilizer is enough? (I will put on some compost as well most likely mushroom or whatever they have at the local nursery)

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2016, 05:17:22 PM »
I already saw your answers to the other user...

Any specific ratios tht would be best for overseeding?

http://lowes.com/pd/Scotts-5-000-sq-ft-Starter-Plus-Weed-Preventer-Lawn-Fertilizer-21-22-4/4005779

Woudlnt this be counter productive? To be a weed preventer i assume it has some kind of pre emergent... this would avoid the seeds to come out as well no?

Should i stay clear of everything that says start fertilizer PLUS weed preventer and stick to just the start fertilizer?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 05:19:17 PM by MrSal »

boarder42

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2016, 06:08:16 PM »
dethatcher is b/c our lawn is mostly destroyed right now.

Here is my current plan for this fall then we'll likely follow yours.

1. mow to a height of 2 inches
2. detatch
3. overseed/reseed dead spots
4. put down a starter fertilizer
5. water this ???
6. mow to 4inch height once started
7. winterizer

should i put some milorganite down somewhere after the starter fertelizer maybe?

You can put milorganite before or after. Doesn't matter. I typically do before so I don't have to walk on the newly sprouted fragile seedlings. Plan looks good. Right before seeding though I would scalp the lawn. The lower the better. Make sure you bag the clippings. If you leave the grass longer, you'll have to mow sooner for any growing grass potentially moving/lifting new seeds.

Also once the new seedling start growing you actually want to mow lower the first 2-3 times. This pushes more energy into the roots and helps the grass grow stronger. That's usually when I put down pure Urea. But that isn't necessary.

What do you do as far as water and now heights both during the fall with the fresh seed. And then throughout the summer
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MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2016, 06:32:07 PM »
dethatcher is b/c our lawn is mostly destroyed right now.

Here is my current plan for this fall then we'll likely follow yours.

1. mow to a height of 2 inches
2. detatch
3. overseed/reseed dead spots
4. put down a starter fertilizer
5. water this ???
6. mow to 4inch height once started
7. winterizer

should i put some milorganite down somewhere after the starter fertelizer maybe?

You can put milorganite before or after. Doesn't matter. I typically do before so I don't have to walk on the newly sprouted fragile seedlings. Plan looks good. Right before seeding though I would scalp the lawn. The lower the better. Make sure you bag the clippings. If you leave the grass longer, you'll have to mow sooner for any growing grass potentially moving/lifting new seeds.

Also once the new seedling start growing you actually want to mow lower the first 2-3 times. This pushes more energy into the roots and helps the grass grow stronger. That's usually when I put down pure Urea. But that isn't necessary.

What do you do as far as water and now heights both during the fall with the fresh seed. And then throughout the summer

Water for seed keep them moist... all the time! Probably 4 watering sessions a day throughout the day... after lawn settles... once a week or so for 1/1.5 inches (including rain)

Mow high especially in the summer

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2016, 05:22:52 AM »
I already saw your answers to the other user...

Any specific ratios tht would be best for overseeding?

http://lowes.com/pd/Scotts-5-000-sq-ft-Starter-Plus-Weed-Preventer-Lawn-Fertilizer-21-22-4/4005779

Woudlnt this be counter productive? To be a weed preventer i assume it has some kind of pre emergent... this would avoid the seeds to come out as well no?

Should i stay clear of everything that says start fertilizer PLUS weed preventer and stick to just the start fertilizer?

The Scott's weed preventer plus starter isn't too bad. If you are really concerned about weeds, don't hesitate to use it. It has an ingredient in it that allows grass seed to sprout and prevents weeds seeds from sprouting. There is a product called Tenacity that hit the residential market a few short years ago. It was originally used strictly for commercial (think golf courses). They came out with a residential version. It's a really small bottle and cost around $70. I don't typically recommend it because of the cost and because basic cheap weed killer works just was well.

However, what sets it apart is that it does allow a person to put see down after or even before you spray it. I just did a quick Google search and it looks like it's being sold on Amazon now and other places. When I bought it you could only purchase it through one place and it was nearly $80/bottle.

https://amazon.com/Tenacity-Turf-Herbicide-8-ounces/dp/B005DUTNF0

I sprayed Tenacity right before I dropped seed on a complete lawn renovation at my old house. I still had to deal with weeds, but probably not nearly as many as if I didn't spray it. Also if you do purchase Tenacity you have to be ultra careful, especially on tall fescue, you don't spray too much. You will kill your lawn.

Anywho, Scotts has the same ingredient that's in Tenacity, so if you want to throw it down, sure no problem. Might give you better peace of mind. Certainly not fool proof though.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 05:29:28 AM by BeginnerStache »

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2016, 05:27:33 AM »
dethatcher is b/c our lawn is mostly destroyed right now.

Here is my current plan for this fall then we'll likely follow yours.

1. mow to a height of 2 inches
2. detatch
3. overseed/reseed dead spots
4. put down a starter fertilizer
5. water this ???
6. mow to 4inch height once started
7. winterizer

should i put some milorganite down somewhere after the starter fertelizer maybe?

You can put milorganite before or after. Doesn't matter. I typically do before so I don't have to walk on the newly sprouted fragile seedlings. Plan looks good. Right before seeding though I would scalp the lawn. The lower the better. Make sure you bag the clippings. If you leave the grass longer, you'll have to mow sooner for any growing grass potentially moving/lifting new seeds.

Also once the new seedling start growing you actually want to mow lower the first 2-3 times. This pushes more energy into the roots and helps the grass grow stronger. That's usually when I put down pure Urea. But that isn't necessary.

What do you do as far as water and now heights both during the fall with the fresh seed. And then throughout the summer

As Mr Sal stated, you want to try to keep the seeds moist. I usually put a timer on a hose and water 3-4 times/day in short durations. Just enough to soak the top dressing covering the seed.

I will raise and lower my mower deck depending on the season. I start fairly low in the Spring and as the weather get's warmer start raising it up. In the summer I might be mowing at 4" whereas in the Spring it might be 2.5". Longer grass handles drought better. I start lowering it back down around this time of year. I mowed at 3.5" last night. For newly seeded areas keep it low for the first several mowings of new grass.

boarder42

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2016, 05:33:19 AM »
dethatcher is b/c our lawn is mostly destroyed right now.

Here is my current plan for this fall then we'll likely follow yours.

1. mow to a height of 2 inches
2. detatch
3. overseed/reseed dead spots
4. put down a starter fertilizer
5. water this ???
6. mow to 4inch height once started
7. winterizer

should i put some milorganite down somewhere after the starter fertelizer maybe?

You can put milorganite before or after. Doesn't matter. I typically do before so I don't have to walk on the newly sprouted fragile seedlings. Plan looks good. Right before seeding though I would scalp the lawn. The lower the better. Make sure you bag the clippings. If you leave the grass longer, you'll have to mow sooner for any growing grass potentially moving/lifting new seeds.

Also once the new seedling start growing you actually want to mow lower the first 2-3 times. This pushes more energy into the roots and helps the grass grow stronger. That's usually when I put down pure Urea. But that isn't necessary.

What do you do as far as water and now heights both during the fall with the fresh seed. And then throughout the summer

As Mr Sal stated, you want to try to keep the seeds moist. I usually put a timer on a hose and water 3-4 times/day in short durations. Just enough to soak the top dressing covering the seed.

I will raise and lower my mower deck depending on the season. I start fairly low in the Spring and as the weather get's warmer start raising it up. In the summer I might be mowing at 4" whereas in the Spring it might be 2.5". Longer grass handles drought better. I start lowering it back down around this time of year. I mowed at 3.5" last night. For newly seeded areas keep it low for the first several mowings of new grass.

awesome guys thank you. sorry to thread jack. but my lawn is 30% dead and i was about to post a mustachian lawncare thread but Beginner has answered all my questions. luckily i have an inground sprnkler. i'm just against wasting water. see people watering 2-3 times a day in the summer. not interested in a high water bill. sounds like we can water once a week in super dry times if we just take care of it up front correctly. going to get some milorganite tonight. dropped to 3 bucks at some local walmarts near me.
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MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2016, 07:39:36 AM »
dethatcher is b/c our lawn is mostly destroyed right now.

Here is my current plan for this fall then we'll likely follow yours.

1. mow to a height of 2 inches
2. detatch
3. overseed/reseed dead spots
4. put down a starter fertilizer
5. water this ???
6. mow to 4inch height once started
7. winterizer

should i put some milorganite down somewhere after the starter fertelizer maybe?

You can put milorganite before or after. Doesn't matter. I typically do before so I don't have to walk on the newly sprouted fragile seedlings. Plan looks good. Right before seeding though I would scalp the lawn. The lower the better. Make sure you bag the clippings. If you leave the grass longer, you'll have to mow sooner for any growing grass potentially moving/lifting new seeds.

Also once the new seedling start growing you actually want to mow lower the first 2-3 times. This pushes more energy into the roots and helps the grass grow stronger. That's usually when I put down pure Urea. But that isn't necessary.

What do you do as far as water and now heights both during the fall with the fresh seed. And then throughout the summer

As Mr Sal stated, you want to try to keep the seeds moist. I usually put a timer on a hose and water 3-4 times/day in short durations. Just enough to soak the top dressing covering the seed.

I will raise and lower my mower deck depending on the season. I start fairly low in the Spring and as the weather get's warmer start raising it up. In the summer I might be mowing at 4" whereas in the Spring it might be 2.5". Longer grass handles drought better. I start lowering it back down around this time of year. I mowed at 3.5" last night. For newly seeded areas keep it low for the first several mowings of new grass.

awesome guys thank you. sorry to thread jack. but my lawn is 30% dead and i was about to post a mustachian lawncare thread but Beginner has answered all my questions. luckily i have an inground sprnkler. i'm just against wasting water. see people watering 2-3 times a day in the summer. not interested in a high water bill. sounds like we can water once a week in super dry times if we just take care of it up front correctly. going to get some milorganite tonight. dropped to 3 bucks at some local walmarts near me.

Yep, my neighbor dropped high nitrogen fertilizer in the summer this year at the advice of what he called a "lawn expert." He was watering nearly every day for hours. What a huge waste.

Stock up on the Milorganite if you can. It rarely goes to 3 bucks. As I said earlier I stocked up for all next year for less than 50 bucks. Mustachian savings.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2016, 09:29:53 AM »
geeez i wish ... the cheapest here its 12 dollars! :(

Anyhow I did some math ...

For overseeding the most important nutrient is phosphorus ... nitrogen is not as important however ill put some milorganite down as well.

Scotts Starter Fertilizer is 24-25-4 so for phosporus we want about 1/2 lbs per 1000 feet and N we want anywhere 3/4 to 1lbs per 1000 ft

So with my math, we want 2 lbs of product per 1,000 which for my backyard would be about 7 lbs of Scotts for the whole 3500 sq feet.

This would give me a total of 1/2 lbs of P to my yard. Since it also contains N this would give it 0.48 lbs of Nitrogen.

Since we want to be close to 1 lbs then I can use Milorganite being mostly N. To get close to 1 lbs of N then I would need 0.48/0.05 = 9.6 lbs per 1000 sq feet.

9.6 * 3.5 = 33.6 lbs .... so pretty much a whole bag of Milorganite for my backyard.

This would give me a total from the Starter Fertilizer and Miolorganite close to 1 lb of N and 0.5 lb of P ...

Is this math ok?

So for the fertilizer I have to calibrate my spreader to a rate of 2lbs per 1000 and for Milorganite to 9.6 per 1000

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2016, 09:46:17 AM »
geeez i wish ... the cheapest here its 12 dollars! :(

Anyhow I did some math ...

For overseeding the most important nutrient is phosphorus ... nitrogen is not as important however ill put some milorganite down as well.

Scotts Starter Fertilizer is 24-25-4 so for phosporus we want about 1/2 lbs per 1000 feet and N we want anywhere 3/4 to 1lbs per 1000 ft

So with my math, we want 2 lbs of product per 1,000 which for my backyard would be about 7 lbs of Scotts for the whole 3500 sq feet.

This would give me a total of 1/2 lbs of P to my yard. Since it also contains N this would give it 0.48 lbs of Nitrogen.

Since we want to be close to 1 lbs then I can use Milorganite being mostly N. To get close to 1 lbs of N then I would need 0.48/0.05 = 9.6 lbs per 1000 sq feet.

9.6 * 3.5 = 33.6 lbs .... so pretty much a whole bag of Milorganite for my backyard.

This would give me a total from the Starter Fertilizer and Miolorganite close to 1 lb of N and 0.5 lb of P ...

Is this math ok?

So for the fertilizer I have to calibrate my spreader to a rate of 2lbs per 1000 and for Milorganite to 9.6 per 1000

The Math looks good. For the Milo there are spreader settings on the bag for bag rate applications. Don't worry about nailing it down to a gnat's ass. Since Milo is organic Nitrogen over doing it won't hurt anything. Heck if I remember correctly, one year I put down over 10lbs of N over the course of the season on my KBG lawn. I was putting down either Milorganite or Soybean Meal every single weekend. My lawn absolutely loved it.

I wouldn't overthink it too much. Just throw them both down at bag rate. And yes you are correct new seedlings need a good shot of "P" to get started. After they sprout, "N" is key.

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2016, 11:08:41 AM »
I have to ask.

How much are all of you spending on your lawn annually?

boarder42

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2016, 11:20:10 AM »
I have to ask.

How much are all of you spending on your lawn annually?

i was spending nothing now it looks like shit and is unusable for the most part and 60% dead. so i'm gonna have to spend something on it ... figured i'd come ask around here. 3 bucks a bag for that milorganic would be around 60 bucks a year for my lawn i estimate. plus seed ... probably around 50 a year. plus this fertilizer and water i'm guessing this will end up around 500-600 a year give or take.

i'm sure you dont have to worry about your lawn as its covered in snow half the year?
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Goldielocks

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2016, 11:40:10 AM »
Question was from curiosity. Not much snow here, green through the winter, but not much growing. So want it to look nice, then then D**MN! raccoons and birds dig up and destroy it in nature's triumphant pest control (against chafer beetles).

anyway...
I have spent $$ in the past, but it does not last long, so have backed off, doing more manual weeding, etc.

Some of the posters to this thread seem to have a passion / hobby around their lawns.

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2016, 12:00:03 PM »
Question was from curiosity. Not much snow here, green through the winter, but not much growing. So want it to look nice, then then D**MN! raccoons and birds dig up and destroy it in nature's triumphant pest control (against chafer beetles).

anyway...
I have spent $$ in the past, but it does not last long, so have backed off, doing more manual weeding, etc.

Some of the posters to this thread seem to have a passion / hobby around their lawns.

I have a former passion for lawns. Not so much anymore. Spent many hours and thousands of dollars making it look pristine. Sold that house almost 1.5 years ago. With my current lawn I fertilize on occasion, throw down a bit of weed killer here and there and that's about it. This year total, I spent less than $100. Next year will be less since I stocked up on Milorganite at 3 bucks a bag already for the entire 2017 season.

MrSal

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2016, 12:08:22 PM »
Thanks! Ill try and do that!

Hopefully I get some results out of the overseeding! maybe next year i will do a full reno I dont know... just want to have the green and thick grass again.

That 3 dollar milorganite is an awesome deal too bad my walmart doesnt carry it otherwise id be all over it!

Im going to skip the core aeration due to the fact a lot of people say it brings a lot of weed seeds so I am going to do only the baby shampoo method

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2016, 12:20:58 PM »
Thanks! Ill try and do that!

Hopefully I get some results out of the overseeding! maybe next year i will do a full reno I dont know... just want to have the green and thick grass again.

That 3 dollar milorganite is an awesome deal too bad my walmart doesnt carry it otherwise id be all over it!

Im going to skip the core aeration due to the fact a lot of people say it brings a lot of weed seeds so I am going to do only the baby shampoo method

And your lawn will smell good ( :

zolotiyeruki

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2016, 01:27:06 PM »
I have to ask.

How much are all of you spending on your lawn annually?
about $20/year on fertilizer, $10 on weed killer, a few bucks on gas for the mower. We're on 1/4 acre, and almost never water. The condition of our lawn seems to depend heavily on how much rain we've had.

MasterStache

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Re: overseeding our lawn - How to?
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2016, 01:59:42 PM »
If you really want to budget you can get organic fertilizer for free. Starbucks coffee grounds, sawdust, free compost on Craigslist, leaving your grass clippings etc. Heck I can get hundreds of pounds of used coffee grounds every week from Starbucks.