Author Topic: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot (Read 10365 times)

Bob W

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Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« on: August 24, 2015, 11:09:29 AM »
Current vehicle - Mercury Mountaineer -- value 2K, 18 mpg average, low liability only insurance, half tread left.

Proposed vehicle - Jeep Patriot -- New price 14K, probably average 26 mpg, full high deductible coverage. Can pay cash but will finance at 3.5% for 60 months and play the spread on market returns.

Miles driven per year currently = 12Kish.

These new SUVs seem really inexpensive, come with nice warranties and Jeeps in particular seem to hold value.

Tell me how wrong I am? To be honest I "want" a new car as I have driven old used cars my entire life.
Better living through math.

EricP

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2015, 11:41:14 AM »
Insurance will be expensive. Don't do it.

cars+FIRE

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2015, 11:42:00 AM »
Jeep Wranglers hold their values extremely well, but the Patriot doesn't seem to fit that category based on a quick craigslist search. (maybe you can prove me wrong)

The Patriot and Compass are effectively replaced by the Renegade and Cherokee, which is why they're being discontinued next year. They are not particulaly competitive in their class and are old designs. I imagine their resale value will be highly negatively effected by the much superior Cherokee and Renegade as they entered the used marketplace.

What is pushing you into this car in particular? Just that it's one of the cheapest crossovers you can get?

A few additional notes:

I bought my first new car a year ago and regret all the extra incidental costs that have come with it. I am going to sell it and go back to used cars. I had a similar "want" based rationale bolstered by justifications of warranty, high resale value, economy, etc.

My local credit union is down to 1.49% on new cars and 1.61 on used, you should be able to do way better than 3.5%.


sstants

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2015, 11:47:57 AM »

Proposed vehicle - Jeep Patriot -- New price 14K, probably average 26 mpg, full high deductible coverage. Can pay cash but will finance at 3.5% for 60 months and play the spread on market returns.

These new SUVs seem really inexpensive, come with nice warranties and Jeeps in particular seem to hold value.

Tell me how wrong I am? To be honest I "want" a new car as I have driven old used cars my entire life.

You gotta get some hard research behind your assumptions. The Jeep Patriot is a fairly new model and DOES NOT hold its value in the resale market. Older Wranglers on the other hand, definitely do. I drove a Wrangler for a while before selling it at a 1k loss, about a $40-50 monthly cost of ownership before insurance/gas etc. Find me an example of a Patriot that only depreciates that much over two years and then go ahead and buy it! No car is a good investment, EVER.

You also definitely won't get 26 MPG. Unless you are the world's perfect hypermiler, those estimates are always crap, even if you do drive carefully.

Manual transmission also isn't an option in that car, so you are going to be paying to haul the extra weight around as well.

Also, don't buy a car for the warranty. Buy a car for the car, especially in the pre-owned market. Look for good stats and a good price, lightly used.


In the end, you know already you are leaning towards an emotional purchase but it is good you are stopping to think about it now!

thd7t

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2015, 11:56:07 AM »
The 2015 Patriot gets a Poor small overlap crash test rating from IIHS. Even the Wrangler doesn't do this poorly on that test (and Wranglers aren't even trying to be safe)

Gone Fishing

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2015, 12:18:58 PM »
Get the SUV notion out of your head. 90%+ of your driving is hauling around a human or three. What you need is a 35 mpg+ car. Use a roof rack/cargo box or small trailer to haul your junk on a road trip. If it snows a lot, get appropriate tires, or even chains if you want to get crazy. Do the math on how much it will save you. I was going down the rabbit hole on a smaller SUV, until I figured it would probably save us $600/yr in gas to go with a mid-sized car instead. That's $15k of stache not needed, or $50/mo we can spend on something that actually makes us happy vs buying capacity we will use 2-3% of the time. If you haven't owned a small/mid sized car in a while, test drive one on the curviest road you can think of. After driving that Mountaineer, almost any car will feel like a race car. Then go park it in the tightest parking lot you can think of. At 12k miles/yr I think you probably could justify getting rid of the Mountaineer now, vs when it dies.


matchewed

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2015, 12:32:54 PM »
How many miles on the old vehicle?

RWD

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2015, 12:42:32 PM »
I am impressed with how deeply they've discounted the Patriot... But you can get a new Versa Note for a similar price or less that will get 45% better fuel economy and still be practical. The new Honda Fit is similar, but probably a little bit more expensive than the Patriot.

lastlaugh

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2015, 01:08:24 PM »
Buying a vehicle new is almost always a bad decision, but aside from that, have you done any research or read any reviews on the vehicle? As the old saying goes: The words "Jeep" and "reliable" never belong in the same sentence. Its seems that most every reviewer agrees (Edmunds, Consumer Reports, etc.)
http://edmunds.com/jeep/patriot/2015/suv/review/#/leaderboard-reviews-3-anchor


Bob W

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2015, 01:16:08 PM »
How many miles on the old vehicle?

305,000. 1999 Mountaineer. Motor strong.

It may last another 100 - 200K IMHO. Leather interior is sweet. I can take it and run it through the woods and not worry about scratching it. Bang it up, haul crap and generally treat it like the old truck it is.

Thing is, that it is a gas hog.

I had considered buying our favorite 08 or 09 Toyota Camry for around 6-7K with 125-170K. Our last one got 385K before it went. (it was an 01).

So yeah, thanks for slapping me around a bit everyone and keep those ideas coming.

I do camp a bit and haul kayaks as well. So keep that in mind. I wouldn't be opposed to a high MPG used car that could do light tows. I think the camry could do that. My wife is constantly on my ass about buying a pop up so I think there is a possibility in the winter of buying a pop up.

I sure would love to get closer to 35 mpg than my current 18ish, but hell, my current set up is paid for and cheap insurance. At some point the numbers do matter. I'm just not sure where my point is.

So maybe my dream is to have --- a vehicle that can do my camping/kayaking stuff while getting good mileage on a daily basis, be reliable, be relatively inexpensive and not be too ugly? Oh yeah, and be able to pull a pop up trailer.
Better living through math.

Bob W

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2015, 01:17:11 PM »
Buying a vehicle new is almost always a bad decision, but aside from that, have you done any research or read any reviews on the vehicle? As the old saying goes: The words "Jeep" and "reliable" never belong in the same sentence. Its seems that most every reviewer agrees (Edmunds, Consumer Reports, etc.)
http://edmunds.com/jeep/patriot/2015/suv/review/#/leaderboard-reviews-3-anchor

I had night --- it was a wet dream I had this morning on the way driving to work. Thanks for that.
Better living through math.

thd7t

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2015, 01:21:44 PM »
How many miles on the old vehicle?

305,000. 1999 Mountaineer. Motor strong.

It may last another 100 - 200K IMHO. Leather interior is sweet. I can take it and run it through the woods and not worry about scratching it. Bang it up, haul crap and generally treat it like the old truck it is.

Thing is, that it is a gas hog.

I had considered buying our favorite 08 or 09 Toyota Camry for around 6-7K with 125-170K. Our last one got 385K before it went. (it was an 01).

So yeah, thanks for slapping me around a bit everyone and keep those ideas coming.

I do camp a bit and haul kayaks as well. So keep that in mind. I wouldn't be opposed to a high MPG used car that could do light tows. I think the camry could do that. My wife is constantly on my ass about buying a pop up so I think there is a possibility in the winter of buying a pop up.

I sure would love to get closer to 35 mpg than my current 18ish, but hell, my current set up is paid for and cheap insurance. At some point the numbers do matter. I'm just not sure where my point is.

So maybe my dream is to have --- a vehicle that can do my camping/kayaking stuff while getting good mileage on a daily basis, be reliable, be relatively inexpensive and not be too ugly? Oh yeah, and be able to pull a pop up trailer.
When I was in highschool, my best friend's dad carried four kayaks on top of a late 80's or 1990 Chevy Nova (it was basically a Corolla) about three times a week. You're never going to get your kayaks into the Jeep, they'll be on top (or in a trailer), so it doesn't really matter what the vehicle is.

Bajadoc

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2015, 01:22:48 PM »
You are experiencing temporary insanity. Wait a week, it will go away.

Jeddy

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2015, 01:31:58 PM »
You shouldn't buy a new Jeep Patriot because it's a Jeep :)

Take that from someone who LOVES Jeeps - I've owned Wranglers off and on, but I would never own one as a primary vehicle as they were all junk. My most favorite vehicles, but they are toys. Fun toys. Expensive toys. Junk vehicles. Unreliable vehicles. Expensive vehicles.

Someone posted links to all the reliability reports on Jeeps - Consumer Reports consistently has all the Jeep models at the bottom of the list year in and year out.
Getting back to the basics!
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jms493

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 01:46:01 PM »
Check out the Subaru Forester or Outback. Great cars, good gas mileage and the do hold their value in case you sell within 5 years.

Good luck...I personally don't like any Jeep products except the Grand Cherokee or Wrangler...but they are too expensive to buy or maintain.

Whats funny is I drive a 2001 Jeep Cherokee with 160K on it. Its rough but I don't drive much Mon-Fri.

Tetsuya Hondo

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 01:47:29 PM »
Jeep Patriots seem to have nearly all the expense of a new car with none of the benefits... aside from that toxic new car smell.

Seriously, Patriots have been routinely panned by the auto mags as sucking in every conceivable category. I would rather have a used Forester or Rav4 or CRV or Tuscon or Soviet Trabant with a UHaul carrier welded to it for that price in that category. I would rather have gonorrhea than a new Patriot.

RWD

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 02:03:41 PM »
How many miles on the old vehicle?

So maybe my dream is to have --- a vehicle that can do my camping/kayaking stuff while getting good mileage on a daily basis, be reliable, be relatively inexpensive and not be too ugly? Oh yeah, and be able to pull a pop up trailer.

jms493 beat me to this while I was typing up this post... Sounds like you want a used Subaru Outback. The 2010 model gets 22/29 mpg (slightly better than the Patriot) and should be attainable for under $15k. The previous generation (2005 - 2009 model) gets 20/26 mpg. The Subaru Impreza might be sufficient as well (not sure about towing), which for the 2012 model year gets an astounding (for an AWD vehicle) 27/36 mpg (CVT transmission). You'll pay a bit more for a 2012 Impreza than a 2010 Outback, but the fuel savings will offset the initial cost difference.

Cole

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2015, 02:08:34 PM »
CVT transmission... Need any more convincing?

Digital Dogma

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2015, 02:16:53 PM »
I've owned 2 jeeps, my family has owned 5 jeeps collectively, and if there is one thing they all have in common its poor metal finishing which leads to rust and failures all over.

I'd strongly avoid a dodge/jeep/chrysler vehicle with every ounce of willpower in my body if I were you Bob W.

I can tell you that I've never gotten stuck while the jeep was running, but I've been stuck plenty of times with a dead jeep if you know what I mean.

Edit for clarity: Jeeps were - Old wrangler (70s?), AMC Chrokee 1986, Chrysler Cherokee 1995, Chrysler Grand Cherokee 1998, Chrysler Cherokee 2002. All had severe rust problems which compromised everything from frame integrity to drive shaft to suspension.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 02:20:57 PM by Digital Dogma »

Gone Fishing

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2015, 02:23:05 PM »

I can tell you that I've never gotten stuck while the jeep was running, but I've been stuck plenty of times with a dead jeep.

That almost qualifies for the quotable quote thread...

Digital Dogma

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 02:23:23 PM »
Jeep Patriots seem to have nearly all the expense of a new car with none of the benefits... aside from that toxic new car smell.

Seriously, Patriots have been routinely panned by the auto mags as sucking in every conceivable category. I would rather have a used Forester or Rav4 or CRV or Tuscon or Soviet Trabant with a UHaul carrier welded to it for that price in that category. I would rather have gonorrhea than a new Patriot.

And if you think its a fluke just look at the reviews of the giant POS Dodge Nitro which is the cousin of the Jeep Patriot SUV.

Forcus

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 02:25:59 PM »
It's not really a Jeep (I'm not saying that to bash). I think it's based on the Caliber. So the Jeep thing is just a badge.

They don't really hold their value, to a point. I've seen them under $10k used. But they do not seem to rapidly drop off after that.

I briefly considered one but the ones I found that were stick had roll up windows. ROLL UP WINDOWS! Now that I've had the luxury of power windows, this would not do.

I'd say a used one would be ok and get decent mileage but I probably wouldn't buy new (I've seen them at the local dealer for around $14.5k) If you go through the woods an AWD one would be fun provided you are dirt trail riding and not full on mud, climbing over stumps, etc.
Note, these opinions are from someone who is half-mustachian at best. Please consider my comments in that light.

Forcus

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2015, 02:27:10 PM »
Jeep Patriots seem to have nearly all the expense of a new car with none of the benefits... aside from that toxic new car smell.

Seriously, Patriots have been routinely panned by the auto mags as sucking in every conceivable category. I would rather have a used Forester or Rav4 or CRV or Tuscon or Soviet Trabant with a UHaul carrier welded to it for that price in that category. I would rather have gonorrhea than a new Patriot.

And if you think its a fluke just look at the reviews of the giant POS Dodge Nitro which is the cousin of the Jeep Patriot SUV.

I think you are thinking of the Liberty.
Note, these opinions are from someone who is half-mustachian at best. Please consider my comments in that light.

lbmustache

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 02:31:46 PM »
It sounds like you want a new car and also want better gas mileage. Think about how much gas $14k could buy ;)

Paul der Krake

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2015, 02:33:30 PM »
A kayak weighs about as much as a first grader... what you need is space/versatility, not towing power.

fishnfool

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2015, 02:37:00 PM »
I would steer away from buying a Jeep. The don't hold their value and they break down a lot. My buddies Jeep Liberty is in the shop all of the time. I see more Jeeps broke down on the side of the highway more than any other vehicle. You were lucky to get that many miles out of your Mountaineer. I doubt you'll get that out of a Jeep. My .02$

Digital Dogma

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2015, 02:39:44 PM »
Jeep Patriots seem to have nearly all the expense of a new car with none of the benefits... aside from that toxic new car smell.

Seriously, Patriots have been routinely panned by the auto mags as sucking in every conceivable category. I would rather have a used Forester or Rav4 or CRV or Tuscon or Soviet Trabant with a UHaul carrier welded to it for that price in that category. I would rather have gonorrhea than a new Patriot.

And if you think its a fluke just look at the reviews of the giant POS Dodge Nitro which is the cousin of the Jeep Patriot SUV.

I think you are thinking of the Liberty.

Oops! You're right.
http://autoblog.com/2008/09/05/dodge-nitro-and-jeep-liberty-to-merge-into-one-vehicle/

I always remembered the jeep liberty as even smaller than the chrokees were, that seems to have grown into an awfully giant POS.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2015, 02:40:02 PM »
Check out the Subaru Forester or Outback. Great cars, good gas mileage and the do hold their value in case you sell within 5 years.
Here in the PNW I think you are required to keep your subaru until you pass it on to your grandchidlren

Cougar

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2015, 02:47:00 PM »
use this depreciation calculator:
http://free-online-calculator-use.com/car-depreciation-calculator.html

it shows for a new 14k car, you will lose $3920 in depreciation the first year and $2,184.00 on average.

there is no reason to buy a car that is less than 5 years old because of the depreciation.

unless there is something the patriot has or looks you like, there is no reason to buy a new one.

I would suggest searching autotrader for SUVs 5-7 years old with less than 45,000 miles. I see 2009-2010 hondas, jeep, volskwagen suvs that could probably satisfy your needs and be a much better buy.

i'd like to buy the new, 2011 or later; grand Cherokee; but they haven't depreciated enough for me yet; but another year or so and I should be able to find one with less than 35,000 miles for around 15k.

Liz

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2015, 03:01:57 PM »
Check out the Subaru Forester or Outback. Great cars, good gas mileage and the do hold their value in case you sell within 5 years.

2nd Subaru!

Blatant

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2015, 03:05:45 PM »
I guest deprecation/value is based on area. Here in Arizona, nothing holds value like a Jeep Wrangler.

While I no longer own any Jeep products, I've owned most of their models (CJ5, CJ7, YJ, TJ (x2), XJ, WJ, WK, Unlimited, etc.). I've had great success with Jeep products in a mechanical sense, though obviously rust isn't an issue where I live.

All that said, I would not buy a Compass or Patriot or any of the small SUVs the brand offers. If you really want a Jeep product, find an old XJ Cherokee or TJ Wrangler with the 4.0 engine. It won't give you great mileage, but it'll take you anywhere you need to go and they're pretty bulletproof.

The Subaru advice offered is pretty dead-on.

Johnez

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2015, 04:12:09 PM »
Mountaineer uses about 667 gallons of gas on 12k miles a year. Multiplied by $3.50 a gallon in gas= $2,333.

Patriot uses 342 gallons of gas on 12k miles. Multiplied by $3.50 a gallon in gas= $1,200.

The $1300 savings difference is a pittance when compared to depreciation, insurance and the fact that you're going to have to shell out 5 figures to realize that savings. I'd say keep the mountaineer and your leather seats.

r3dt4rget

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2015, 04:23:06 PM »
Buy a small, cheap, 35+ mpg car. You don't need a SUV or truck for camping. Most people drive up to their campsite via access roads which are flat, some paved, and easily navigated by a bicycle as much as a 4x4 SUV. If you need to rough it out more you should be backpacking, which doesn't require a vehicle at all except to drop you off at the edge of the woods. How much stuff do you need to really camp? The more space you have, the more stuff you will take. The less space you have, the less stuff. It's just like buying a large house. You will find a use for the space, but that doesn't mean it makes you happier. If a backpacker can camp a week with just things carried in a backpack, you can fit everything you need to enjoy the outdoors in a small car. If you can't, you don't need it.

If you need more space, buy a trailer! For just $300 you get the space of a full-size truck bed. Cars can tow a fair amount safely. Cars like my 1998 Honda Civic are rated at 700+ lbs of cargo. So attaching a 250lb trailer gives me 500lbs hauling ability safely on the trailer.

http://harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/trailer-accessories/1195-lb-capacity-48-inch-x-96-inch-heavy-duty-foldable-utility-trailer-with-12-inch-wheels-90154.html

MrsPete

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2015, 04:32:49 PM »
To be honest I "want" a new car as I have driven old used cars my entire life.
What I hear you saying is that you KNOW this is a bad idea, but you still WANT the shiny new toy. Translation: You're a human being, and you're not always rational.

I suggest you WAIT. Give it a couple months and see if you're still dying to own the new car. If so, if it's a real priority, it'll still be available.

suburbandad

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2015, 06:55:59 PM »
As a previous Jeep Patriot owner, I have to say -- STAY AWAY

My DW is a Jeep person so we bought a 2011 Latitude model new (this was all pre-Mustachian enlightenment, mind you) and the depreciation on it was unreal. We had it on 5-year, 2% financing, only put 30k miles on it, and were barely at positive equity on it when we finally dumped it after 2.5 years, and only due to a reasonable offer on Craigslist (got some really depressing trade-in quotes from 2 dealers and Carmax). So get that "value" idea out of your head

We also found that it's a car that just doesn't do any one thing well. It's too small to be an effective hauler of anything, too big/crappily built to be fuel-efficient or a long-term solution. We effectively outgrew it after 1 kid and a dog, and it couldn't meet our Home Depot run needs. We probably averaged ~20mpg

I'm not even a Jeep person and even I know that it's not really a Jeep

big_slacker

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2015, 07:20:12 PM »
I guest deprecation/value is based on area. Here in Arizona, nothing holds value like a Jeep Wrangler.

While I no longer own any Jeep products, I've owned most of their models (CJ5, CJ7, YJ, TJ (x2), XJ, WJ, WK, Unlimited, etc.). I've had great success with Jeep products in a mechanical sense, though obviously rust isn't an issue where I live.

The Subaru advice offered is pretty dead-on.

Everywhere I've lived wranglers hold their value extremely well. I've also never heard reliability being an issue. I had a '97 4.0 for years in tahoe, drove it in the sierra nevada winters and offroad in the summers. Nothing ever went wrong that I couldn't fix with a socket set or a screwdriver, and aftermarket parts are ultra cheap and plentiful. I loaned it to friend for a 2500 mile road trip, later sold it to him, he sold it to my roomate who sold it to his dad and it's still driving. I have a '13 now and while the engine is more modern the rest of it is just as bonehead simple to work on.

However I will say that a wrangler is a totally irrational vehicle. Even for an outdoor guy as I am. The mighty subie is a much better choice. Super cheap used, much better MPG, more gear storage, easier to load kayaks on top of and will go just about anywhere that doesn't involve rock crawling.

choppingwood

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2015, 08:17:58 PM »
LemonAid never says anything good about Jeeps. No matter how cool they seem.

And you have seven kids. Some of them of young enough that they are going to wreck it, just by being in it.

You didn't want us to say yes, did you?

Bob W

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2015, 08:45:31 PM »
You guys are great. Already looking at other options and feeling better about my low mpg hog. I know very little about cars and trucks so this has been informative. Perhaps I will end up with an 09 Camry before long?
Better living through math.

happyfeet

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2015, 09:08:35 PM »
I have a 2010 Jeep Patriot with 75000 miles. No mechanical problems yet gas mileage is meh. I call it a pretend Jeep. However It developed rust on the back above the tire. We can get our two kayaks on top. Rough and noisy ride. Shakes at 70 mph.

Side note DH works for FCA so That's why I drive one. It's an ok car. Nothing special. I'll drive it until it dies.

Digital Dogma

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2015, 08:59:06 AM »
You guys are great. Already looking at other options and feeling better about my low mpg hog. I know very little about cars and trucks so this has been informative. Perhaps I will end up with an 09 Camry before long?
Smart choice! Lots of good alternatives out there when it comes to the small SUV/hatch 4x4/AWD segment also.

Also this hasnt been discussed yet but personally id avoid large rim wheels like the plague so your choice of tire is wider and cheaper. Lots of SUVs in the Sport category have excessively large rims with low profile tires that are not really suited for rough terrain, plus they cost much more.

Cougar

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2015, 09:04:19 AM »
You guys are great. Already looking at other options and feeling better about my low mpg hog. I know very little about cars and trucks so this has been informative. Perhaps I will end up with an 09 Camry before long?

you might look for a ford escape hybrid. should get you about 27mpg, be able to get one fully depreciated under 14. its still an suv if that's really what you want. I know I could never go back to a car.

ketchup

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2015, 09:26:44 AM »
To be honest I "want" a new car as I have driven old used cars my entire life.
The only car my parents ever bought new ended up being the worst car they ever drove (not a Jeep, but not a reliable brand either). Even a 5-year-old car means you'll know which 5-year-old models to avoid. They bought it for a similar reason to your reason here. They dumped it at 110,000 miles for $2K (and I sincerely think the buyer here overpaid; cosmetically it looked flawlessly brand new, but that transmission could have failed at any moment) after only eight years of garbage, and have since come to their senses and both drive sensibly-used cars (2003 Buick with 140k and 2007 Nissan with 90k at the moment).
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 09:31:54 AM by ketchup »

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2015, 09:41:00 AM »
You guys are great. Already looking at other options and feeling better about my low mpg hog. I know very little about cars and trucks so this has been informative. Perhaps I will end up with an 09 Camry before long?

I am surprised that I didn't see anyone mention (I read about half the replies) that with 2 cars you can get a multi-vehicle discount on your insurance. This may offset the cost of insuring your *new* vehicle.

Here's what I would do:
1) keep the SUV, drop the comprehensive/collision coverage.
2) purchase super gas mizer for commuting / daily driving (honda fit, chevy volt, cruze, toyota corolla, etc)
3) continue to flog SUV thru woods on weekends
ET ERE: 5yrs

Bob W

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2015, 11:25:06 AM »
You guys are great. Already looking at other options and feeling better about my low mpg hog. I know very little about cars and trucks so this has been informative. Perhaps I will end up with an 09 Camry before long?

I am surprised that I didn't see anyone mention (I read about half the replies) that with 2 cars you can get a multi-vehicle discount on your insurance. This may offset the cost of insuring your *new* vehicle.

Here's what I would do:
1) keep the SUV, drop the comprehensive/collision coverage.
2) purchase super gas mizer for commuting / daily driving (honda fit, chevy volt, cruze, toyota corolla, etc)
3) continue to flog SUV thru woods on weekends

Sounds like a theory although I only carry liability currently. I will probably get the mizer and pass the gas hog along to one of my kids. I had never considered a Subaru as they are very rare cars around here and I had heard very expensive to maintain and break down often. But after hearing the positives here I will look into those.

It is very hard to justify having a car or truck just sit around for seldom uses. And as the others said -- I can bang about on the gravel roads in a used Toyota Camry as well. That is what I used to do anyhow.

But damn, I sure do like sitting up high on the road anymore and when I drive my daughter's camry I feel like I'm in a go cart.

So I'll let it brew in my head for a bit --- the "urge" has passed thanks the face slaps and I can think more clearly now. Whew, that was a close one! And I had no idea the Patriot was such a piece of crap.
Better living through math.

RWD

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2015, 11:55:39 AM »
Whew, that was a close one! And I had no idea the Patriot was such a piece of crap.

Although TrueDelta only has numbers for the 2008 model year (you have to sign up to see more), it corroborates the poor reliability of the Patriot:
http://truedelta.com/Jeep-Patriot/reliability-712

nobodyspecial

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2015, 12:04:23 PM »
I had never considered a Subaru as they are very rare cars around here and I had heard very expensive to maintain and break down often. But after hearing the positives here I will look into those.
Have an 2006 impressa hatchback (just the boring one, not the turbo charged rally car) since nearly new, now with 200K on it - intend keeping it until we run out of oil. I get around 30mpg on a mixture of highway/street commute, but mine is stick so permanent 4WD - I think the newer CVT are better.

Handling is very good especially when conditions get bad.
Toys + interior trim + bodywork is definitely mustacian compared to VW/Volvo/Audi - but mechanics are solid.
Here in the PNW they have an almost religious following (same in Maine) reputation is that they last forever.

Mechanics haven't been expensive to fix because nothing ever goes wrong with the AWD system and the boxer engine has legendary longlife.
Doing work yourself is easy if you have a lift - the engine is very low slung so you do everything from underneath






« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 12:13:16 PM by nobodyspecial »

nobodyspecial

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2015, 12:12:23 PM »
Had Explorer hybrids (original model = 2005?) they were used as a site vehicle so no idea of gas consumption

Hybrid system is supposed to be copied from prius but didn't seem particularly useful.
It runs the gas engine for 5mins when you start to get upto temperature so even if you are just going a short trip you don't get to use the battery.
Range on battery is basically only stop-start traffic (max 20mins IIRC) and only works <25mph.
If you go over 25mph, even downhill, or if you use the AC it starts the gas engine.
It has regenerative braking but since you almost never to get to use the hybrid there isn't much point.
No fancy display of charging or remaining power like a Prius - although we probably had a base model.

The CVT transmission is nice, and it uses electric for reverse gear so parking is quiet and easy.
Towing is limited to 1000lb - at least that's what the plate says.

Overall it's an OK mini SUV, comfy for 4 adults, nice driving position, not tippy on the freeway. Limit cargo capacity even with seats folded down.
But don't know if I would pay for the hybrid option if it was my money.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 12:21:03 PM by nobodyspecial »

golden1

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2015, 12:19:22 PM »
If you are going to buy a new car, I wouldn't buy that one. For that money I'd rather buy a used CR-V, Forester or Rav4 that I know will last.

Late_Bloomer

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2015, 01:47:58 PM »
Frugality, mustachianism, whatever you want to call it is, or should be, all inclusive. There is no questioning "should I buy this expensive vehicle?" No, you shouldn't. end of story. It's that simple. If you need to break it down, then why do you need it, other than you want it? Do you have a large family? A midsize 4 door economy class car will fit up to 5 people. Do you live out in the sticks and need 4 wheel drive for the winter? Well, now you are talking about a greater need. The vehicle you propose would be a good choice for that environment. Then you have to ask yourself, how can I get it cheaper? How about a used model for half the price of a new one? I would think those are the base line questions you should be asking yourself. Imo, if you are asking us to talk you out of it, then you don't need it.

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Re: Talk me out of buying brand new Jeep Patriot
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2015, 07:55:23 AM »
Perhaps I will end up with an 09 Camry before long?

Quote from: Bob W

It is very hard to justify having a car or truck just sit around for seldom uses. And as the others said -- I can bang about on the gravel roads in a used Toyota Camry as well. That is what I used to do anyhow.


Quote from: Bob W


But damn, I sure do like sitting up high on the road anymore and when I drive my daughter's camry I feel like I'm in a go cart.

I'm going to rephrase for a little face punch Bob, but I know you can take it!

"Despite the increased rollover risk, sitting up high gives me a sense of superiority on the road that I am willing to pay thousands more for, not to mention the additional consumption of a finite resource."

Get the Camry!